TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Winter Range

Discussion in 'Canada' started by mcfadyena, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Campbellford, Ontario
    Hello Everyone,

    I have 1 month to wait for my delivery of my S85. I commute 260 KM per day to work (round trip) and make weekly trips to Sick Kids' in Toronto (360 km, round trip). I was wondering what other Canadians are seeing for their Winter Range with a max charge and average driving speeds.

    As well, took a trip to the GO station multi-level parking spots last week to get a peek at the charge stations they have there. They seem to be set up, but were blocked off by pylons and hazard tape. Are they just being put in? Have they been active but are having trouble?

    Thanks in advance for any winter advice you can provide. Looking forward to going all electric soon!

    A.
     
  2. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Ancaster, Canada
    360km could be tough depending on the weather. But the good news is there are several L2 EVSEs along the 401. I see there is an EVSE 450 meters from Sick Kids at the Delta Chelsea. Unfortunately it's in the valet parking section and the fee is $40, at that price it's roughly the cost of gas for the trip. I'm sure others like Doug will comment on their winter driving/range.

     
  3. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,556
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    My apologies to fellow Canadians, but I still think in miles, degrees F and gallons.

    In any event, I did a full (90%) charge last night and got 215 Rated Miles of range. That equals about 345 km. I commute from the GTA to the Waterloo Region which is about 90 miles or 145 km round trip, so I am good.

    In the summer, I actually get very close to, and sometimes even better than the Rated 308 Wh/mi on my commute. In the cold weather I've been as high as 450, and we haven't had serious snow yet. That is about a 50% increase in energy consumption, which would bring my full charge of 345 km down to an "actual" of about 235 km (146 miles).

    You could do a Range Charge and get more, but personally, I wouldn't want to be doing that on a daily basis. You could also try some "hypermiling" techniques such as running with no cabin heat and driving slower... but what fun is that?

    I think a good planning number for a full (90%) charge in winter is 235 km. Add a bit of a buffer for things like side trips or parking outside in the cold all day as well. Depending on brand, winter tires can take a bit of a toll too.

    One final note is that the Rated Miles (km) estimates seem to change with each firmware release. When I first got my car last March, I would see 241 miles on a "Standard" charge and now only see 215. I am told that the old "Standard" level was something more than 90%, and I may also have some battery degradation setting in as I have about 28,000 km on the car at this point.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    In extreme cold conditions and a 100% charge, with the heat on (in Range mode) and driving moderately, you can expect to have a range of about 330 km. So you're going to need a top-up on the Sick Kids' trip in the winter. Fortunately there are high powered chargers along the 401 at the Best Westerns. I hope you got the dual chargers, because you're going to need them!

    In warmer weather, e.g. above +3 degrees C, it won't be hard to make that trip.

    Should be no problem with the 260 km round trip, but in the winter I would recommend preheating the car using the remote app while it's still plugged in. Drive at the speed limit in winter. In summer you can let 'er rip.

    One thing to be aware of is those are 30A chargers, so they're going to be very slow. Unless you can leave your car there for many hours you're not going to get a lot of range out of them.

    I would recommend using the Sun Country network instead. See:

    EV Trip Planner | Sun Country Highway
     
  5. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,339
    Location:
    USA
    I would check and see if there is a place at Sick Kids that you can plug in.
     
  6. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,556
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Excellent advice. I don't think we can overstate the importance of what Sun Country has done here by building out this network of high power Level 2 stations. I now make it a point to patronize businesses that have installed SCH chargers and have 2 brand new SCH CS-100 chargers in my warehouse awaiting installation.

    Just the other day, I had been driving all over and had to make a late day trip out to Scarborough from Waterloo, then back to the west end of Toronto. I had a quick dinner at an ONroute station (no chargers :cursing:) and then I stopped at the Best Western in Milton and used their 90 amp charger for a bit while I took a much needed nap in the car! You can even pick up the hotel's free WiFi from the car where the charger is located!.

    No regrets getting the dual chargers!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've used some chargers down at Brookfield Place (Bay & Wellington) and at Commerce Court (King & Bay) which is a bit of a walk to Sick Kids, but would just be a short subway ride.
     
  7. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Campbellford, Ontario
    Thanks, Everyone.
    I did get the superchargers - was highly recommended when I was with the team at the Showroom, so I made sure to add them.

    Didn't expect only 235 km on a charge - might make my daily commute difficult!
    I think the supercharges at the GO stations are meant for full day plugging in while you commute back and forth, so slow charge isn't much of an issue.

    Thanks again!
    A.
     
  8. mnx

    mnx 2013 P85

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,281
    Location:
    Ancaster, Canada
    FYI: Supercharging and Twin Chargers are two different things. Twin Chargers are for converting AC into DC for example plugging into J1772 EVSE's that supply >40 amps. If you don't have twin chargers you'll be limited to 40A charging even if the EVSE can supply 80A. This is fairly important for someone like yourself to have since you drive fairly long distances. It'll cut your charging time in half if you find a 80A j1772, or close to half a a 70A j1772 of which there are several now in Ontario thanks to Sun Country.

    Superchargers (of which there are none in Canada yet) supply DC directly to the car. You also need this capability to plug into other DC charging standards such as CHAdeMO. You'll also need a fairly expensive adapter for that but there's only 1 in Ontario right now so not that crucial yet.

    FWIW 235km was sort of a worst case scenario spelled out by mknox above, and was only on a standard charge. On a range charge you'd be able to do your commute no problem, although I wouldn't want to range charge daily. (I'd much prefer to plug in at work, even if it was only a 120V outlet.)



     
  9. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Campbellford, Ontario
    Thanks!
    I did get the Twin Chargers.

    Do you all recommend the HPWC from Tesla as well for a garage installation?

     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I rarely use more than 40A at home. Maybe twice a year. You need the speed on the road, not overnight at home.
     
  11. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,339
    Location:
    USA
    Not unless you need to charge quickly at home. NEMA 14-50 is all you need at home.
     
  12. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,556
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I've been getting by at 16 amps since March... and I have a 150 km or so commute. Been dragging my heels at getting my 14-50 wired up, partly because the 20 amp plug I co-opted from the non-functional hot tub has been working fine. :tongue:
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well at least you're not stuck on 110V. That wouldn't be enough, especially in the winter!
     
  14. mcfadyena

    mcfadyena Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    205
    Location:
    Campbellford, Ontario
    Thanks again, Everyone.
     
  15. Forty Creek

    Forty Creek Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Carlisle, Ontario
    I only have 110V available at the office and it doesn't even warm the battery enough to prevent limited regen from kicking in. It really hasn't been that cold outside yet, either.
     
  16. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Well to be fair, 220V doesn't do that either. The pack only gets warmed when you preheat the car using the remote app (or if you charge). And even then you will still have about 50% regen limit at first.
     
  17. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,939
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    I'm getting a HPWC for the aesthetics. It's a slick little unit. Plus there's no plugging/unplugging of the UMC and a bit longer charge cable. I'll probably only hook it to 60 or 70 amps.

    I will concede that it's a bit expensive to buy for looks alone though.
     
  18. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I just leave my UMC in the garage, plugged into a NEMA 14-50, and use it as if it were an HPC. If I go on a road trip I unplug it and bring it along.

    In fact the (silly) cutout switch box our local utility forces us to install makes a handy cord holder.

    IMG_2004.JPG
     
  19. Forty Creek

    Forty Creek Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    Carlisle, Ontario
    Thanks. I knew about the need to either preheat or charge in order get heat into the battery and had been doing both.... but expected more from 110V.
     
  20. scaesare

    scaesare Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    3,934
    Location:
    NoVA
    I got the HPWC as well, but more than just for aesthetics (although I must admit it looks cool):

    - I plan on an 100A installation at some point... while the 50A circuit I currently have is plenty for overnight charging... there are cases where a "fast turnaround" or decision for spontaneous trip have come up, and the near-60MPH charge rate would be preferable over the under-30MPH rate

    - I don't consider the UMC "permanent installation" device. As a matter of fact the "M" in "UMC" stands for "mobile". I understand leaving it plugged in most of the the time, but I'm not sure that time, flex, weight, etc... won't take it's toll on the plug-head/adapter combo.

    -The HPWC has a cable hanger and "plug hook" in addition to the above-mentioned slightly longer cable.

    - I want a charging cable in the car at all times. That means that if I want a permanent UMC for the garage, I'm already at $650. Spending the difference for the HPWC for the above reasons isn't that much of an additional expense in the overall scheme.
     

Share This Page