Would AP2 ever support the DashCam feature

[Kant.Ing]

The only upgrade path is to buy the latest car from Tesla every 4 years. And, always skip a generation like the tick-tock model. HW2 owners can skip HW3 entirely and should be in time for HW4.

 

[mspohr]

This is Elon time, so if he's saying the end of the year, maybe 2021? And AP 2.0 cars are completely screwed.

Here's a more complete description of his statements:

"I think we will be feature complete — full self-driving — this year," Musk said. "Meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up and take you all the way to your destination without an intervention, this year. I would say I am of certain of that. That is not a question mark."

"However," he added, "people sometimes will extrapolate that to mean now it works with 100 percent certainty, requires no observation, perfectly. This is not the case."

In addition, the speed at which the technology makes it into the hands of customers depends on what regulators will allow, Musk added.

However within two years, the technology ought to be there for cars to operate without any help from a driver at all.

"My guess as to when we would think it is safe for somebody to essentially fall asleep and wake up at their destination? Probably towards the end of next year," he said. "That is when I think it would be safe enough for that."

 

[Cheburashka]

So is the consensus of some that going forward some of the cutting edge AP/FSD features they will be implementing simply will not work with HW 2.0? If this is the case, they really must have a proper upgrade path as so many customers bought HW 2.0 cars based on the promise of being able yo upgrade their cars to achieve FSD.

I don't think it's technically feasible to implement the new hardware on AP2.0 cars, so those with AP2 are most likely stuck with what they have. There have been multiple breakdowns of the differences in AP2 vs AP2.5 and it's far too different (including wiring harnesses) to be a drop-in swap.

No idea what will happen to those that ordered FSD, personally I don't think that actual FSD is possible with the vision + radar configuration on a Tesla. I'm assuming they will get their money back at some point, or have it converted to a credit towards a new Tesla.

 

[Superman910]

I don't think it's technically feasible to implement the new hardware on AP2.0 cars, so those with AP2 are most likely stuck with what they have. There have been multiple breakdowns of the differences in AP2 vs AP2.5 and it's far too different (including wiring harnesses) to be a drop-in swap.

No idea what will happen to those that ordered FSD, personally I don't think that actual FSD is possible with the vision + radar configuration on a Tesla. I'm assuming they will get their money back at some point, or have it converted to a credit towards a new Tesla.

Thats a slippery slope into some litigation.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

This thread really pisses me off. I knew I should have quit reading the forums after I bought my car. I'm starting to think Elon is a pathological liar. Either that or he just doesn't care if he knows what he's talking about.

 

[croman]

This thread really pisses me off. I knew I should have quit reading the forums after I bought my car. I'm starting to think Elon is a pathological liar. Either that or he just doesn't care if he knows what he's talking about.

It's the pathological liar option. But it's mainly hubris.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Or maybe pathologically optimistic. It's just annoying. The car's awesome enough as it is. I don't think people need to be deceived to want to own one.

 

[PhilDavid]

We know the Autopilot computer is easy enough to upgrade and it was designed as such. How hard is it to upgrade the cameras? That surely can't be that hard can it? Given the fact they sold AP 2.0 cars with a promise to be able to update the hardware to support EAP and FSD, they need to come up with a reasonable way to enable AP2/AP3 feature parity.

 

[Marcopolo44]

I don't think it's technically feasible to implement the new hardware on AP2.0 cars, so those with AP2 are most likely stuck with what they have. There have been multiple breakdowns of the differences in AP2 vs AP2.5 and it's far too different (including wiring harnesses) to be a drop-in swap.

No idea what will happen to those that ordered FSD, personally I don't think that actual FSD is possible with the vision + radar configuration on a Tesla. I'm assuming they will get their money back at some point, or have it converted to a credit towards a new Tesla.

 

[Marcopolo44]

Someone at Tesla mus have the answer.
Are AP2 cars with FSD paid for upgrade-able to Sentry mode etc.?

 

[BigD0g]

We know the Autopilot computer is easy enough to upgrade and it was designed as such. How hard is it to upgrade the cameras? That surely can't be that hard can it? Given the fact they sold AP 2.0 cars with a promise to be able to update the hardware to support EAP and FSD, they need to come up with a reasonable way to enable AP2/AP3 feature parity.

But it’s not just the cameras! There’s a new radar with a narrow and wide band, there’s a new redundant wire to the radar. There’s a rendundant steering servo.

I’m sure there’s other things I’m missing but those are just a “few” of the “minor” things Tesla did with 2.5. Anyone who bought a car between ~Oct 2016 and ~Aug 2017, better gear up for a fight or put the pitch forks down and consider themselves abandoned by Tesla.

Just look at all this dashcam / sentry crap. There is 0, zilch, nada one reason Tesla can’t give this to AP2 cars NONE!!! They simply choose not to because it’s a greyscale image, even though that can be fixed to with a little post processing....

So, buckle up AP2 owners it’s going to be a bumpy ride. I’m one of you, and I’m not seeing it. And I wish I didn’t see so much behind the covers it’s just making me more pissed off...

 

[PhilDavid]

But it’s not just the cameras! There’s a new radar with a narrow and wide band, there’s a new redundant wire to the radar. There’s a rendundant steering servo.

I’m sure there’s other things I’m missing but those are just a “few” of the “minor” things Tesla did with 2.5. Anyone who bought a car between ~Oct 2016 and ~Aug 2017, better gear up for a fight or put the pitch forks down and consider themselves abandoned by Tesla.

Just look at all this dashcam / sentry crap. There is 0, zilch, nada one reason Tesla can’t give this to AP2 cars NONE!!! They simply choose not to because it’s a greyscale image, even though that can be fixed to with a little post processing....

So, buckle up AP2 owners it’s going to be a bumpy ride. I’m one of you, and I’m not seeing it. And I wish I didn’t see so much behind the covers it’s just making me more pissed off...

If they renege feature parity for advertised EAP/FSD features for AP2 cars when AP3 rolls out, I think they will find a sh*tstorm of trouble from people who bought the cars, paid extra for those features, AND patiently waited in good faith to receive what was promised.

Tesla really needs to figure out a way to offer AP2/AP3 feature parity as AP3 hardware essentially promises what was sold for AP2.

 

[dennis_d]

If they renege feature parity for advertised EAP/FSD features for AP2 cars when AP3 rolls out, I think they will find a sh*tstorm of trouble from people who bought the cars, paid extra for those features, AND patiently waited in good faith to receive what was promised.

Tesla really needs to figure out a way to offer AP2/AP3 feature parity as AP3 hardware essentially promises what was sold for AP2.

FSD will not happen for the next 2-3 years at least, and FSD != "feature parity" with Model 3 or newer S/X, in 2-3 years most AP2 cars are going to be 4-5 years old, most of them with not original owners , so nobody would care

 

[PhilDavid]

FSD will not happen for the next 2-3 years at least, and FSD != "feature parity" with Model 3 or newer S/X, in 2-3 years most AP2 cars are going to be 4-5 years old, most of them with not original owners , so nobody would care

Ah, let's just see if "nobody would care"

And no one expects FSD to happen instantly one day two years from now. EAP and FSD will happen in incremental steps over months or years and those customers who paid for EAP/FSD with AP2 hardware were sold a product that would either enable the EAP/FSD features when they are released or will be capable of those features after they make available a hardware update for AP2. They have gone on record saying that they would offer a hardware upgrade for AP2 cars if that is needed for FSD.

So apparently, with AP3, a hardware update is needed and this update retrofit has been promised for customers with AP2 cars. People bought AP2 cars and paid for EAP and FSD or they were told they can enable FSD features at a set price post-purchase.

 

[croman]

The hardware upgrade was only for the AP computer. They specifically didn't say whatever hardware was needed for FSD. So they know the cameras are different and radar and the regulators know that there isn't redundant e fuse to steering actuators. If it doesn't get approved for any of those reasons by regulators then Tesla breached their contract at minimum.

 

[Mark_T]

So apparently, with AP3, a hardware update is needed and this update retrofit has been promised for customers with AP2 cars. People bought AP2 cars and paid for EAP and FSD or they were told they can enable FSD features at a set price post-purchase.

I think the earliest trigger for the upgrade that was promised will be something that is released as a step on the FSD path that cannot be delivered without it.

Can't really argue that things that were never promised like, dash-cam and Sentry mode, qualify...

 

[Marcopolo44]

I estimate 50000 to 75000 AP2 cars were built. Should'n't that be a big enough group to at least get an answer?

 

[Marcopolo44]

I estimate 50,000 to 75,000 AP2 cars were built. Shouldn't that be enough customers to at least get an answer?

 

[Marcopolo44]

If Tesla gets FSD working, I think there will be a HW2 => HW2.5 upgrade path (full upgrade, not just the HW3 compute unit). The wiring changes shouldn't be as bad as they sound. Yes, the HW2.5 cameras are different, but the form factor is exactly the same, as is the hardware all the way down to the sensor (it's literally just the filter that's different). So you need replacement cameras with the correct filter, but they'll drop right into the existing harness. You would need new wiring for the Continental radar but that isn't very invasive (no upholstery removal and frunk area is very accessible). There are some small changes at the point of the computer but those are even easier than the radar.

I also expect that Tesla will eventually backport Sentry and dashcam to HW2 vehicles, probably when they have time to do the work of simulating the missing B channel from the HW2 cameras. At that point, they'll be able to support both HW2 and HW2.5 variants through a (mostly) single code path.

I hope you are correct.

 

[Mark_T]

I estimate 50,000 to 75,000 AP2 cars were built. Shouldn't that be enough customers to at least get an answer?

I think it is still too early for any clarity on your question.

Sentry mode isn't really a trigger for any upgrade promises anyway.

The question Tesla will eventually be obliged to answer is 'what will be upgraded to meet the needs of FSD features?'

... and you can't really deal with that question until there are FSD features...