drdumont
Member
What's this? An egg in the new Tesla S?
OHHH You mean YOKE!
Gad, I hope the caption in the picture contained a typo, or you were a victim of auto correct.
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Yoke Steering
- Thread starter derevan007
- Start date
OHHH You mean YOKE!
Gad, I hope the caption in the picture contained a typo, or you were a victim of auto correct.
drdumont
Member
Use a sidestick to drive? No. Never. Uh-Uhhh...Now I wish they would offer a joystick on the center console like that of an F-16 fighter jet for steering. That might take a little while longer getting used to.
Maybe on the Space Shuttle and French designed commercial aircraft, but on a street vehicle? No way, Jose! You would be better
off with a tiller. Or a set of bicycle handles. Or maybe two sticks like on the old Mississippi River steamboats.
At first I though the thing would be similar to an airplane yoke, limited wheel rotation, merely a command to a servo. Ick.
Imagine making a turn then letting the wheel return to zero by loosening your grip as I have driven for over 60 years. Broken thumb time.
How typical of Tesla. Ignore a REAL problem like the UI with unreadable gray text on a gray background, tiny fonts, and invisible charge indicator, and focus on really really imprtant safety issues like making fart noises or yet another silly game.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Model 3s - but Tesla and AMTRAK can really make some bonehead decisions from time to time.
As much as folks claim that a yoke is not usable, I have been driving around for a few days now and it gets more natural each time I drive the car (have about 300 miles on the car). I'lll probably post another video on Friday, which will be one week with the car.
In the last day or so, I have really stopped thinking too hard about hand placement and gotten back to driving, much like I did with my prior S. For example, I am mostly back to one-handed driving and turns and I also am used to letting the wheel re-center on it own after a call and I am figuring out how to do that with the yoke.
Folks are gonna want to believe what they want to believe, so I'm not here to change minds, just to share my experiences.
In the last day or so, I have really stopped thinking too hard about hand placement and gotten back to driving, much like I did with my prior S. For example, I am mostly back to one-handed driving and turns and I also am used to letting the wheel re-center on it own after a call and I am figuring out how to do that with the yoke.
Folks are gonna want to believe what they want to believe, so I'm not here to change minds, just to share my experiences.
Tam
Well-Known Member
I've read all messages on this thread, I don't think I read that the yoke is "not useable."
It works. It works fine. Race driver Rand Pobst drove the whole 3 laps before taking it off for a rounded wheel.
If it didn't work, he would be dead by now. The fact that he's still alive to order his support team to take off the yoke meant it worked. It worked but he just preferred the rounded wheel on the Tesla Model S Plaid that he drives.
So the question is, except for the look, does the yoke enhance the steering function for drivers? Does it give the drivers more options to place, hover, glide, grab their hands over the steering wheel, or is that functional area now cut to half?
Yes, drivers can compensate for the missing half of the wheel but still is that a steering enhancement?
It's just like lots of people are happy to chop off the radar from Autopilot. It works. It's fine but don't they know that with radar Autopilot, the TACC still works in impaired vision condition when there's a lead car in front such as darkness, headlights off, smoke, wildfire evacuation, thick fog, heavy rain... but Radarless Autopilot cannot?
People can adapt to chopping off half of the full circle of the steering wheel or chopping off the radar from Autopilot, but it's mistaken to think in so doing, the chopping act would enhance the function.
In general I would say no (with one caveat, below). The concern seems to be if Tesla put form ahead of function, and I'd argue that answer to that is "no". About a week in and I am back to about 80% of where I started in terms of steering wheel mastery.
The caveat. The yoke mostly forces a 3/9 o'clock hand position that does mesh well with the new control buttons on the wheel. The turns signal buttons fall right where my left thumb can reach and the bump in the wheel makes is easy to tell what I am doing without looking. And, perhaps the yoke has further surprises: Tesla Files Patent For Steering Wheel With Touch-Sensitive Panels
Tam
Well-Known Member
Since I don't have the new Plaid, I think we all do appreciate your valuable feedback.
I am sure you'll do fine after catching up with the learning curve.
By the way, I've seen people using their bare hands with the buttons that do give the haptic feedback. That means, once drivers got used to it, they don't need to look at those buttons to push anymore. However, I haven't seen it's done with thick gloves. I guess with thick gloves in winter driving, drivers just need to look at buttons to push rather than taking off gloves for the haptics.
I dunno, I warn folks I am a middle-aged doofus, so, kinda the worst case 
Good point on the gloves--will have to try it out.
Good point on the gloves--will have to try it out.
Had 3 pairs of gloves handy: nitrile gloves, thin/lightweight gloves and heavy fleece gloves--the yoke buttons worked with the first two, but not the fleece. OTOH the yoke is heated, so you could argue you would not need the fleece gloves.
Tam
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the very methodical testing with the gloves. Great info indeed!
Wingsy
Member
Well, I've seen plenty of videos and commentary on the yoke steering and to me it seems like Elon sacrificed a lot just to remove the top part of the wheel for a better view ahead. The motions for steering in tight quarters looks very awkward, especially when backing up. On an open highway where not much steering movement is needed it looks fine, but that hand-over-hand motion to turn sharply is a bummer for me. The "wheel" is not always where you expect it to be. I was expecting to see some sort of variable ratio steering that would require a max of 90 or even 180 (maybe) degree movement. Something like that might take quite a bit of getting used to though and may be even worse. Just imagine if that MU-2 in my profile pic needed more than 90 deg for aileron movement. I'd probably crash. And another thing... the horn. Ever since driver training I've always known where the horn was. In the center. It was always in the center no matter how much you are turning. Now the horn is a moving target. In an emergency where you need the horn right NOW, that might be a problem.
I hope I can test drive one before my pickup date.
If I have a big problem with steering in tight quarters I may try adding a steering ball to the yoke so I can quickly do full stop-to-stop steering with one hand. That worked wonders on my boat when docking.
And another thing... the horn. Ever since driver training I've always known where the horn was. In the center. It was always in the center no matter how much you are turning. Now the horn is a moving target. In an emergency where you need the horn right NOW, that might be a problem. I hope I can test drive one before my pickup date.
If I have a big problem with steering in tight quarters I may try adding a steering ball to the yoke so I can quickly do full stop-to-stop steering with one hand. That worked wonders on my boat when docking.
bay74
Member
I wonder more about the lack of stalks than the shape of the wheel. In Omarsultan's video, he only turned on the indicators from a near-straight position - I want to see how one turns on indicators to e.g. leave a round-about, where the wheel is already turned significantly.
Dolemite
is my name
Which means that an appropriate bolt-on replacement round steering wheel exists? If so, then problem solved - although you would still have to spend extra $ to buy the replacement wheel, which is ridiculous.
The problem seems to be whether Tesla (or someone) makes a "regular" steering wheel that has the built-in turn signal buttons - itself a dubious and unnecessary "enhancement" in the new Model S.
MichaelP90DL
Active Member
To be fair, it was always going to be changed. The plan going into it was to try out both.
Jonny Lieberman on Instagram: "What a yoke. So, this is becoming a whole thing on the interwebs. Randy Pobst was driving the Unplugged Performance Tesla Model S Plaid Pikes Peak racecar, and at some point the yoke was removed and replaced by a regula
3,670 likes, 80 comments - jonnyliebermanJune 15, 2021 on : "What a yoke. So, this is becoming a whole thing on the interwebs. Randy Pobst was driving the Unplugged Performance Tesla Model S Plaid P..."
www.instagram.com
"What a yoke. So, this is becoming a whole thing on the interwebs. Randy Pobst was driving the Unplugged Performance Tesla Model S Plaid Pikes Peak racecar, and at some point the yoke was removed and replaced by a regular, round steering wheel. Now, the part that EVERYONE seems to have missed is, UP and Randy were shaking the car down. This photo was taken about one hour after anyone had ever driven the thing. They brought both steering mechanisms to play with. This is how you test a racecar. What does the driver prefer? What makes them go the quickest. So yeah, the yoke came off, but not because Randy hated it. Even if he loved it, the yoke would have been replaced with a wheel as part of the testing plan. The rotors were replaced, as were the calipers and pads. The splitter (broke, and then) came off. That’s how you shakedown a car. Is anyone still confused?"
roblab
Active Member
And in five years no one will even care if the wheel was round or yoked. There's always a hue and cry whenever anything new is tried, sometimes it catches on, sometimes it doesn't, as in the pushbutton gear selectors on '56 Chryslers. Which didn't survive. It's possible the yoke will disappear, too. If there's not a clear advantage, it probably will.
I will try to keep an open mind, but I cannot imagine how limiting the number of positions you can place your hands, enhances the experience, especially on long drives. As someone who will go 15 hours (with kids and dog) there is no way that I keep my hands at 9/3 the whole time. Now you cannot rest your hands at 10/2 or top of wheel. Yes, I know , not optimal, but this is reality.
I agree with the aforementioned interface of grey on grey.
Seems to solve a problem, that no one really had, and if they did this seemingly creates more problems (visibility vs hand positioning). Change for the sake of change is definitely NOT first principle thinking.
I agree with the aforementioned interface of grey on grey.
Seems to solve a problem, that no one really had, and if they did this seemingly creates more problems (visibility vs hand positioning). Change for the sake of change is definitely NOT first principle thinking.
I know I shouldn't be feeding the troll...
- AP is standard on all Teslas. No need to keep your hands on the yoke/wheel at all times.
- One hand, two hands, no hands... AP doesn't care.
- If you want to rest your hands, try the bottom of the yoke/wheel.
I don't think Tesla is going to have a difficult time finding customers for their new S and Y.
I'd say the nicks complaining here were never interested in a Tesla or an S Plaid.
- AP is standard on all Teslas. No need to keep your hands on the yoke/wheel at all times.
- One hand, two hands, no hands... AP doesn't care.
- If you want to rest your hands, try the bottom of the yoke/wheel.
I don't think Tesla is going to have a difficult time finding customers for their new S and Y.
I'd say the nicks complaining here were never interested in a Tesla or an S Plaid.
MarcG
Active Member
Incorrect, unfortunately. Until Tesla changes the way AP monitors driver attention, you need keep at least one hand on the wheel/yoke so that AP detects slight torque input from the driver. If it doesn’t, the “nag” happens quite frequently at highway speeds (more that once every minute).
Every time AP is started it shows the following, as least as far as I know. Maybe new versions with different hardware are different.
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