Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

10.9 FSD

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
More than 2 weeks after it began to roll out, it stopped (at ~40% of testers) and since he/they've been uncharacteristically silent.
I'm still waiting for 10.9 to drop into my download queue, but the rollout is still at a dribble. There is still no feedback from Tesla as to why it has been limited to a smaller number of users.
No. The rollout is not "at a dribble". The rollout has been at a complete stop for more than ten days.

It was first distributed two weeks ago. 48 hours after that, it stopped. All of the installs that you have seen since the 19th are cars that received it during the first 48 hours, but did not install it until sometime later. There are still cars that got it in the first 48 hours that have not yet installed it. So you will continue to see a trickle of installs, but these are not cars that are receiving the update now.

At the moment, Teslafi shows 13 cars that have 10.9, but have not yet installed it. So if you follow Teslafi, you may see up to 13 more cars install it in the coming days and weeks.

You are right that the silence has been deafening. Considering how often he has tweeted about each new beta release, the current situation seems unprecedented. I hope we get some news soon.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Sigma4Life
I love how there is zero evidence of Tesla ever reviewing any clip or email, but people keep diligently working.

I say this as not being all that different.
What exactly are you looking for or expecting? In general, beta test feedback is always a one-way street. You encounter issues, you report them. They may or may not be fixed at some point in time. Very occasionally you will get contacted about reproducibility, but that is (by definition) something that is unlikely with stacks such as this.

I've seen a number of things appear in the beta which were disliked and subsequently disappear (the wide swings on making curb-hugging turns comes to mind). I've no idea if this was a direct result of the feedback, but its unlikely it had no effect at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWord
What exactly are you looking for or expecting? In general, beta test feedback is always a one-way street. You encounter issues, you report them. They may or may not be fixed at some point in time. Very occasionally you will get contacted about reproducibility, but that is (by definition) something that is unlikely with stacks such as this.

I've seen a number of things appear in the beta which were disliked and subsequently disappear (the wide swings on making curb-hugging turns comes to mind). I've no idea if this was a direct result of the feedback, but its unlikely it had no effect at all.

A well designed customer facing beta test should never be a one-way street.

It should be designed to attracted detail orientated customers, and customers who are fans of the product.

The tool for reporting feedback should designed to allow a customer to easily communicate the severity of the problem, and what kind of problem it was.
  • Was it a problem with an interface or control? For example I feel as if its dangerous to have Adaptive Cruise control continue to function despite using the steering wheel to disengage FSD.
  • Was it a problem with the Maps/Navigation? This is such a serious problem in so many cases that it prevents FSD Beta from being full leveraged.
  • Was it a problem with the base SW that doesn't even include FSD, but impacts the version of firmware installed on the vehicle. I've had Tesla's since 2015, and I've never seen so many bugs as I see now. Things that have lasted build after built as there is no good way of reporting bugs. It used to be that you could email them, but they took that away.
  • Was the issue a safety one that required a disengagement or a comfort level?
If you did studies on people reporting issues/bugs I'm sure you'd see steep decline in the quality of the reports if the person doing the testing doesn't feel like anyone is listening or cares about their feedback. People enjoy finding bugs, but not when there is no one to acknowledge it. Imagine using TMC and never getting a like, a dislike, a love, or even a laugh.

The quality of my own reporting would be vastly improved if there was a Web interface for it that included the clips I clicked on so I could reference them. It would also be a lot better if they responded to suggestions even in a "Yeah, we've gotten a lot of this request and we're investigating it" kind of way.

The other thing is having some level of engagement helps guide beta testers.

Like if they said "we know we have a problem with false FCW" I would stop reporting them.

There are also cases where a persons specific HW might be at fault. The last thing you want is FSD beta customers disrupting the service centers.

That's why I would recommend regional representatives that helped filter issues, and helped with customer engagement. One of their primary tasks would be getting maps issues sorted out to enable FSD Beta owners to more fully leverage FSD. I don't know if you've seen it, but TMC has an entire thread with people trying to figure out how to get the maps updated. If I was the manufacture of the product I'd find this inexcusable because it means your customers are desperate for a fix.
 
A well designed customer facing beta test should never be a one-way street.

It should be designed to attracted detail orientated customers, and customers who are fans of the product.

...

The other thing is having some level of engagement helps guide beta testers.

Like if they said "we know we have a problem with false FCW" I would stop reporting them.
I suspect they are careful to keep it 99% a one-way street, lest we (or a court) ever determine we are "employees" acting at the direction of the company, which might make us entitled to compensation, or could change Tesla's liability if there was any kind of damage/injury that could have been caused by doing something at the direction of the company.

And to those of you thinking "I wouldn't hold Tesla accountable because I know what I'm doing here": If a beta tester were to be killed in a crash, even if it had nothing to do with FSD, its plausible that person's family members would take it on themselves to take every action at their disposal to try to fight against Tesla, including arguing they are due compensation for the person being killed "at work".

To be clear, I don't believe I'm an employee and not advocating this line of thinking, but I think Tesla is careful to avoid too much direction to avoid the appearance of this situation.


For sure I'd appreciate more/better communication and better tools to know what data is helpful to them and how to make the data more helpful for them, but it doesn't seem like that's going to be happening any time soon. That itself might be an indicator that even with the level of feedback they get from us, they are getting the data they need. Whether that is because of our feedback, or because a lot of our issues are pretty obvious and they already knew about them I'm not sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sigma4Life
Also said that 53,288 people are using beta since Christmas.
I thought that was the most interesting nugget out of the whole thing. Now the user base is known.



Frankly, I was surprised that Tesla even had this feature in the first place. Hard coding something that generally constitutes a moving violation seems risky from Tesla's standpoint. Let the driver apply a little override throttle if they want to do a rolling stop.
 
Frankly, I was surprised that Tesla even had this feature in the first place. Hard coding something that generally constitutes a moving violation seems risky from Tesla's standpoint. Let the driver apply a little override throttle if they want to do a rolling stop.
They also code the option to drive over the speed limit by X miles per hour. Not sure that is different, but definitely closer to natural driving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ruffles
Oh so you got my steering wheel, Tesla canceled on me for the forth time. ;) I've been pushed back until Feb 2nd this time. :mad:

When the ranger looked at mine he said it was the switch and they would only replace the switch. He claims it pops out.

Hopefully Tesla will see a spike in switches and go check there code on how they broke it
@rpo and @Reddy Kilowatt did either of you get new parts?

I suspect the OTA potentially bricked the ECU, causing the buttons to stop working. If the ECU is truly bricked, then it must be physically replaced. But if the bootloader can still be flashed, then another update could restore its functionality and 'undue' the corruption in code.

When I was working at Tesla, we implemented the ability to 'unbrick' an ECU and I wonder if that has somehow failed.

You can read up on what I'm talking about here: Understanding What is Flash Bootloader | ECU Reprogramming
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sigma4Life
They also code the option to drive over the speed limit by X miles per hour. Not sure that is different, but definitely closer to natural driving.

That's true. Considering the oft used "traffic flow" argument and the fallibility of the speed limit database in our cars, maybe that has a little better reasoning? I was also trying to think if there were other instances like the rolling stop thing. The car will cross a double yellow for an obstruction, but that's typically permitted in state law. Not sure if I've ever seen FSD turn left over a double yellow. That's illegal in Texas (you need to wait for an unpainted gap per the law).
 
Also said that 53,822 people are using beta since Christmas.

I believe I had my settings to allow for the Jersey stops but don't recall the car actually ever doing it. I'm on the middle setting no aggressive.

I thought that was the most interesting nugget out of the whole thing. Now the user base is known.



Frankly, I was surprised that Tesla even had this feature in the first place. Hard coding something that generally constitutes a moving violation seems risky from Tesla's standpoint. Let the driver apply a little override throttle if they want to do a rolling stop.
I thought the most interesting info was that the next update will be 2021.44.30.15 (or later) and it’ll be out in early Feb.

Since I’m already on 2022.4 I probably have zero chance of getting into the beta now until FSD hits the 2022.4 branch.
 
They also code the option to drive over the speed limit by X miles per hour. Not sure that is different, but definitely closer to natural driving.

I don't think that's really any different because they are both user settings to do something that is illegal, but yet totally normal.

As an L2 driver aid it simply makes it less functional, and it's not really a safety issue at all. Plus the liability is on the driver as the driver is the one who picked the setting.

Personally I don't think Tesla should have had the rolling stop feature because the Firmware was no where close to being time to implement it. In my testing FSD Beta can't even approach the line, and stop correctly. Instead it does this weird thing where it stops a bit short and then rolls forwards to the line. Then it takes off so slow that other people jump in front. I've also never seen it actually do a rolling stop.

Basically Tesla did a make believe California stop when the cops were watching, and that's not when you do it. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: serendipitous
I thought that was the most interesting nugget out of the whole thing. Now the user base is known.



Frankly, I was surprised that Tesla even had this feature in the first place. Hard coding something that generally constitutes a moving violation seems risky from Tesla's standpoint. Let the driver apply a little override throttle if they want to do a rolling stop.

Ugh.

We haven't even made it out of the gate and our robots are already telling us ""I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."

Robot and Frank would be a much different movie if the Robot gave more importance to the LAW than to its owner.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: GWord
All that being said, everyone who is stuck on 10.8.1 should reasonably expect to get the next beta push relatively quickly after release. Especially to insure that no car is still sitting with the rolling stop feature. This may be a 10.9.1 release deal.