110 W vs Wall Connector or Nema 15

[voip-ninja]

Just took delivery of my Model 3 on Valentines Day last week. Got estimates on installation of a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Did a great job for $350.

Much better charging than my 120V wall outlet in my garage! All you really need for level 2 charging unless you just want a sharp looking WC IMO.

14-50 is definitely the economical choice. There are legitimate reasons for wanting the HPWC such as faster charging of your LR Model 3, wanting to keep the mobile connector in the car at all times in case it is needed in an emergency, and having an installation that is more tamper-proof than a high amperage outlet.

When making this decision myself there was never a cosmetic factor under consideration.

 

[travis1906]

14-50 is definitely the economical choice. There are legitimate reasons for wanting the HPWC such as faster charging of your LR Model 3, wanting to keep the mobile connector in the car at all times in case it is needed in an emergency, and having an installation that is more tamper-proof than a high amperage outlet.

When making this decision myself there was never a cosmetic factor under consideration.

Good points. Makes sense!

 

[18_Mdl_P3D]

I dislike this kind of misinformation. The wall connector is a variable, selectable device. It doesn't "need" one specific level of circuit. It can be selected to operate on many different levels, from 15A to 100A circuits. So if you have a 14-50 outlet, and you just want to swap to the wall connector because it looks more awesome, you can just swap it on there, on the existing 50A circuit. And for that matter, the 14-50 outlet is allowed to be on a 40A circuit, because of an exception in NEC since there is no 40A outlet type.

Roch_h, not sure how this is mis information...the source is from Tesla's adapter kit (Gen 2 NEMA Adapters), and if you go to Tesla's site for the wall connector it too states that a 60A circuit is needed for the mdl 3 extend range battery, S & X.

 

[Rocky_H]

Roch_h, not sure how this is mis information...the source is from Tesla's adapter kit (Gen 2 NEMA Adapters), and if you go to Tesla's site for the wall connector it too states that a 60A circuit is needed for the mdl 3 extend range battery, S & X.

It is misinformation, because you are still talking about it as if the cars or wall connectors only have one power level at which they can operate. That is false. What you are referring to is a conditional guideline:
IF you want the maximum power that this model of car can take, THEN you would use this level of circuit.
But saying to everyone that having that level of circuit is required to charge their cars at all is just incorrect. People can still use 20 or 30 or 40A circuits with wall connectors.

Here's why this really matters and isn't just splitting hairs. I've seen plenty of times on both forums people not knowing that the wall connector has that flexible switchable capability, and electricians frequently don't know it either. That's a bit understandable, because most other makers like Clipper Creek or Bosch are just fixed at one rating. So some electrician or Tesla owner hears that the Tesla wall connector is a 100A device, and they think it's impossible for them to use it because they can only spare an extra 50A circuit in their home electrical system. That is important for people to know they have those options.

 

[mobilesuit818]

So trying to figure out the best way to go at this...and please correct me if my logic isnt sound.

1. Existing 200a Panel will have 1x Outlet installed with 14-60 Receptacle installed @ 60a( not to break any rules specifically surrounding using any more than 50a on a 14-50.)
- I will purchase an RV adapter to plug into the 14-60 receptacle from the 14-50 Tesla Gen 2 Wall Charger which should enable me to charge at 80% at 50a or 33-44mi per hour.

2, New 100a Panel will have 1x Tesla HPWC hardwired thus enabling 44mi per hour.

Does that sound kosher to you guys?

 

[Rocky_H]

1. Existing 200a Panel will have 1x Outlet installed with 14-60 Receptacle installed @ 60a( not to break any rules specifically surrounding using any more than 50a on a 14-50.)
- I will purchase an RV adapter to plug into the 14-60 receptacle from the 14-50 Tesla Gen 2 Wall Charger which should enable me to charge at 80% at 50a or 33-44mi per hour.

That doesn't really make any sense. Tesla doesn't sell an adapter that can plug into a 14-60 outlet, so why would you install that type of outlet? All of the charging cables that come with Tesla cars come with 14-50 adapters, so that would make a lot more sense as the type you should choose if you are installing an outlet. Plus, the mobile charge cables that come with the cars can't pull an more than 32A no matter what, so thinking you can pull 50A from a 14-60 outlet just couldn't happen anyway.

2, New 100a Panel will have 1x Tesla HPWC hardwired thus enabling 44mi per hour.

Sure, that sounds fine.

 

[mobilesuit818]

That doesn't really make any sense. Tesla doesn't sell an adapter that can plug into a 14-60 outlet, so why would you install that type of outlet? All of the charging cables that come with Tesla cars come with 14-50 adapters, so that would make a lot more sense as the type you should choose if you are installing an outlet. Plus, the mobile charge cables that come with the cars can't pull an more than 32A no matter what, so thinking you can pull 50A from a 14-60 outlet just couldn't happen anyway.

Sure, that sounds fine.

For some context, I purchased the 14-50 Tesla HPWC and plan to install that but wanted to get to the 44 mi/hr charge.

 

[StellarRat]

That doesn't really make any sense. Tesla doesn't sell an adapter that can plug into a 14-60 outlet, so why would you install that type of outlet?

Future upgrade? Another piece of equipment maybe?

 

[Rocky_H]

For some context, I purchased the 14-50 Tesla HPWC and plan to install that but wanted to get to the 44 mi/hr charge.

Uhhhh, I don't quite follow how you're thinking of doing that.

I will purchase an RV adapter to plug into the 14-60 receptacle from the 14-50 Tesla Gen 2 Wall Charger which should enable me to charge at 80% at 50a or 33-44mi per hour.

I realize I misread, thinking mobile connector, not wall connector. Are you referring to that special version of wall connector with cord attached that has a 14-50 plug on it? That has disappeared from Tesla's store now, so you can't get one anymore, and that's a 14-50 plug, not a 14-60 plug. And where you mention an "RV adapter", you know those are not 14-60 plugs, right? RVs use 14-50 outlets.
Anyway, let's say you're talking about just getting a regular wall connector and deciding to put a plug and cord on it instead of hardwired. Why?! What use could you ever have for a 14-60 outlet? There's almost nothing that uses those. If you want the 44 miles per hour charging rate, just hardwire the wall connector to the 60A circuit the way it's supposed to be done.

 

[Rocky_H]

For some context, I purchased the 14-50 Tesla HPWC and plan to install that but wanted to get to the 44 mi/hr charge.

Oh, so you were able to actually buy one before they disappeared. And you're planning to swap the cord to a 14-60 and change the internal switch? I guess I still don't see why you wouldn't just hard wire it. The extra connections of plug/outlet are just an extra weak point that gets more and more dangerous with the higher currents you're using, so I guess I would just ask: what benefit do you think you could get from this by trying to make it a pluggable 60A device?

 

[mobilesuit818]

Uhhhh, I don't quite follow how you're thinking of doing that.

I realize I misread, thinking mobile connector, not wall connector. Are you referring to that special version of wall connector with cord attached that has a 14-50 plug on it? That has disappeared from Tesla's store now, so you can't get one anymore, and that's a 14-50 plug, not a 14-60 plug. And where you mention an "RV adapter", you know those are not 14-60 plugs, right? RVs use 14-50 outlets.
Anyway, let's say you're talking about just getting a regular wall connector and deciding to put a plug and cord on it instead of hardwired. Why?! What use could you ever have for a 14-60 outlet? There's almost nothing that uses those. If you want the 44 miles per hour charging rate, just hardwire the wall connector to the 60A circuit the way it's supposed to be done.

I am in possession of the Tesla 14-50 HPWC and a Tesla HPWC that you need to hardwire.
For my purpose/End result, I need to utilize the 14-50 and was thinking of using that on the existing panel.

Lets take the RV term out of the equation.

The Tesla HPWC will be hardwired to the new panel, so 44mi/hr is not an issue.

Its more of the 14-50 Tesla HPWC, can i get this hardwired?

My end result is to get this to yield 44mi/hr and was thinking of using an 14-50/14-60 adapter on the 14-50 Tesla HPWC...

 

[Big Earl]

Does the internal setting on the pluggable wall connector even go higher than a 50 amp circuit?

 

[derotam]

I don't think it's going to work unless Tesla made a technical mistake somewhere... I have thought the same thing about the 14-50 HPWC in regards to using it as is now, and then hard wiring it later, but I would think that Tesla has the same current limiting circuitry in the 14-50 connection so if you take that off it might not even work anymore, depending on how they engineered it.

 

[Rocky_H]

Does the internal setting on the pluggable wall connector even go higher than a 50 amp circuit?

I don't know. There seems to be some uncertainty about that in the thread that was discussing this device. In this comment, #17, someone noticed that the new product manual for it omits any mention of the current selector dial, so they were thinking that maybe it was hardwired inside to only provide 40A.
New wall charger option w/ Nema 14-50

But then in this comment, #43, he says he has seen one, and it did still have the current setting dial in it.
New wall charger option w/ Nema 14-50

But someone had mentioned that it seems to have a thinner charging handle cord than the full ones that are made to go up to 100A circuits, so they used thinner gauge wire, intending it to be a 50A device. But I don't know the wire gauge they used specifically, so I wouldn't know if using as if it were on a 60A circuit would still be within tolerance or not.

 

[Hawnboy]

If you can identify that you have a dedicated circuit in the garage you could re wire it to a Nema 6-20 outlet with minimal work, that is if you can be sure you have 1. isolated a dedicated circuit and 2. made sure it is 12 gauge wire which it almost certainly will be.

You would then most likely (depending on if you have room in your main panel) be able to use a 2 pole 240v 20a breaker to replace your old 120v single pole one and hook up the neutral (white wire) to the one pole and the old hot wire (black wire) to the second pole, leave the ground wire at the panel in place, also to be to code you need to use some black electrical tape to cover the visible part of the white wire so it is now identified as a hot wire.

At the other end of the dedicated line all you need to do is hook up a Nema 6-20 outlet and then get a $35 adapter for your UMC that came with the car.

You could now charge at 16A for a 15 mile per hour charge rate allowing you to charge from 30% to 90% overnight or about 12.4 hours in this case.

If you have an electric dryer outlet in your garage then you are in even better shape as you could hook up a dryer buddy and get 24A charge speeds and go 30% to 90% in 8 hours

Products

these are the least expensive ways to get level 2 charging speeds.

This is the exact route that I took when we decided to purchase our M3P+.

Although our normal daily commute would total up 25 miles or so, we didn't need all that recharge power that a NEMA 14-50 would provide.

We settled on the NEMA 6-20 because I already had that circuit wired in my garage for an air compressor.

I also decided that we would initiate rechanging when the battery reaches 30% or so and return it to 80% SOC!
And like you said, it will take around 12 hours to recharge, which we do overnight.

Happy driving!!!

 

[18_Mdl_P3D]

It is misinformation, because you are still talking about it as if the cars or wall connectors only have one power level at which they can operate. That is false. What you are referring to is a conditional guideline:
IF you want the maximum power that this model of car can take, THEN you would use this level of circuit.
But saying to everyone that having that level of circuit is required to charge their cars at all is just incorrect. People can still use 20 or 30 or 40A circuits with wall connectors.

Here's why this really matters and isn't just splitting hairs. I've seen plenty of times on both forums people not knowing that the wall connector has that flexible switchable capability, and electricians frequently don't know it either. That's a bit understandable, because most other makers like Clipper Creek or Bosch are just fixed at one rating. So some electrician or Tesla owner hears that the Tesla wall connector is a 100A device, and they think it's impossible for them to use it because they can only spare an extra 50A circuit in their home electrical system. That is important for people to know they have those options.

hey Bud, the context of the 60A was for the wall connector and to utilize all of its capability, it should be on a 60A circuit. If the house has only a 100A box, and after doing a load analysis the largest circuit it can safely support is 20A, well then that's the max. One can also know that if it works at 60A, it most certainly can work at 20A. For me I try to match the hardware to the desired performance level while allowing for some growth. This is the most economical way as well. Unless a person wishes to spend $2K to upgrade the house service from 100A to 200A.

 

[Rocky_H]

and to utilize all of its capability,

Yep. And that is the conditional that I added to correct it.

 

[Arizona Willie]

This is my first time to charge my Tesla.

I hooked up to the wall outlet in my driveway, 115 volt and when I checked the app it said it was charging 8/8A.

Which I took to mean it was charging at the maximum of 8 amps.

Question is: Why does Tesla limit my charging on a 120 volt outlet to 8 amps? It could easily charge at 10 or 12 amps with no danger.

Surely they don't want us to get impatient and buy a faster charger.

So just wondering how significant of a charge will you get when you go from a 110w to a Nema 15 or Wall Connector?

I know that if I have to charge overnight to 90% (full charge), I am fine if I'm around 80% with only 110W. So basically, it's fine for a round trip from house to work. Commute isn't far, only like 12.5 miles, with room to spare for errands or lunch in the area.

But if I do round trip from OC to LA, like a 50 mile drive each way, then I will have like 30% from a 90% full charge. And charging from 30% is not gonna do much on 110w. I will need to supercharge either on the way back or the next day when I have time. So I decided to charge next day, so I went from Lake Forest to San Clemente which is one of the closest super chargers to me, and decided to eat there since they got some good restaurants. Then went back home, had 80% charge, and the 110W was able to get it up back to 90% overnight.

But yeah, how is the wall connector or Nema15 charging speed? Will I be able to do longer trips without super charging? Like within 9-12 hour time, what is the lowest you can be at to expect a 90% charge the next day? When on Wall connector or Nema15? I am getting tired of only charging with 110W because it only works if I only did a short work commute from one city distance. But doing longer trips like OC to LA which is about 50 miles each way, I am hoping the Wall Connector will be more sufficient.

 

[Rocky_H]

This is my first time to charge my Tesla.
I hooked up to the wall outlet in my driveway, 115 volt and when I checked the app it said it was charging 8/8A.
Which I took to mean it was charging at the maximum of 8 amps.
Question is: Why does Tesla limit my charging on a 120 volt outlet to 8 amps? It could easily charge at 10 or 12 amps with no danger.
Surely they don't want us to get impatient and buy a faster charger.

I have a pretty good theory about what is going on. I do think you are reading that correctly, that saying 8/8A does mean it's using the full 8 out of the 8 amps available. People frequently will see 30/30 or 40/40. But you are also correct, that the hardware that you are using should be capable of 12A on that kind of outlet, so what is going on?

Well, what I think may be going on is that the car may have automatically lowered the current because of detecting a wiring problem. I've seen several times on this forum where someone's car lowers from 40A to 30A because it sensed too much voltage drop when ramping up the charging, which usually indicates a resistive bad connection somewhere up the line, so it tries lower current to avoid a heat build up problem. But I thought that it would generally display 8/12A in that kind of case instead of 8/8.

Could you try something to check it? The car's charging screen should be able to show the measurements of volts and amps. Plug it in, but make sure to have it stop charging, so it will just be showing the voltage with no amps flowing. See what that voltage number is. Then touch the button on the screen to tell it to start charging, but put the amps down to the lowest (5A I think) to start with. Watch it ramp up some to that and then push it up toward 8A or 12A if it will let you. See what the voltage numbers are showing as it draws some load on that circuit. If it's only going down by about 2 or 3 volts, that's normal, but if it's showing like 9-10 volt drop or more from that, it probably is some bad connectivity somewhere along that circuit that needs to be looked at.

But it also could be just some weird kind of glitch that a reset of the car could fix, because it shouldn't show 8 amps maximum.

 

[Arizona Willie]

I have a pretty good theory about what is going on. I do think you are reading that correctly, that saying 8/8A does mean it's using the full 8 out of the 8 amps available. People frequently will see 30/30 or 40/40. But you are also correct, that the hardware that you are using should be capable of 12A on that kind of outlet, so what is going on?

Well, what I think may be going on is that the car may have automatically lowered the current because of detecting a wiring problem. I've seen several times on this forum where someone's car lowers from 40A to 30A because it sensed too much voltage drop when ramping up the charging, which usually indicates a resistive bad connection somewhere up the line, so it tries lower current to avoid a heat build up problem. But I thought that it would generally display 8/12A in that kind of case instead of 8/8.

Could you try something to check it? The car's charging screen should be able to show the measurements of volts and amps. Plug it in, but make sure to have it stop charging, so it will just be showing the voltage with no amps flowing. See what that voltage number is. Then touch the button on the screen to tell it to start charging, but put the amps down to the lowest (5A I think) to start with. Watch it ramp up some to that and then push it up toward 8A or 12A if it will let you. See what the voltage numbers are showing as it draws some load on that circuit. If it's only going down by about 2 or 3 volts, that's normal, but if it's showing like 9-10 volt drop or more from that, it probably is some bad connectivity somewhere along that circuit that needs to be looked at.

But it also could be just some weird kind of glitch that a reset of the car could fix, because it shouldn't show 8 amps maximum.

==============
Turned out to be my fault.

When I plugged the adapter into the Tesla charger I pushed until it stopped and I thought that was as far in as it went.

I WAS WRONG.

This morning a member advised me to check the charging screen and I discovered that there was a problem with the connection so I looked at it and pushed harder and it slid in until everything was flush and immediately the charge available went to 12 amps!!

I just had a severe case of dummazz disease.