$14K Tesla Charger Install

[Feathermerchan]

Do you have an electric dryer or range?
You may be able to use the dryer plug to charge the car. That is usually 240V and 30A and Tesla sells an adaptor for it ($44).

Another option is to wire a 240V 20A outlet and get that adaptor.

Go here:
Model S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

Then select 6-15 or 6-20 to see what they look like.
6-15 requires two 15A breakers and 14 gauge wire (same as many lighting circuits you have).
6-20 requires two 20A breakers and 12 gauge wire.
Ask your electrician if they can run either of those.
6-15 will charge at 11 mph and draw 80% of 15A or 12A
6-20 will charge at 15 mph and draw 80% of 20A or 16A
The adaptors are $44 each.

 

[miimura]

Pictures would help a lot. Take pictures of where the meters are and your panel inside your unit.

 

[Akikiki]

After checking my breaker I believe my service is technically 120V/50 total for the unit. The exterior 50A breaker lists 120V on it not 240V....I need to move

A lot of people are going to disagree with me but I recommend you keeping asking people/contractors for info. My townhouse is 40 years old. Every second unit has a dual service box. Service to each unit is 100 amps. Five contractors' quote included trenching to lay a new feed from across the street. And because these are dual service box, I had to pay for my neighbor's upgrade even though she didn't need a service upgrade. I kept looking at contractors and talking. FINALLY, one did her homework. She went to the local electric company and pulled the HOA building plans from 40 years ago. She discovered (no one else did) that the existing feed would support 200 amp - each unit. My upgrade for my unit and the neighbor was $3,000 versus more than $10,000. The easy way to quote this was for those other contractors to treat it worse case and not really look into the problem. One did. She also got my solar panel installation business.

Again, keep looking and talking. You can do A LOT of talking and asking questions for $14,000. One lthing that is going to get me in trouble with others here. I doubt your service is only 50 amp. Those are likely 100 amp service for each unit. Keep checking back for us, we are interested in knowing how you fix this.

And to be accurate, its not $14,000 for a Tesla charger. It may be $14,000 to upgrade your condo service so you can charge an EV there and maybe add an A/C for the home. And don't forget, this is an investment in your property. Two units side by side for sale, your's had the advantage of already being EV-charging ready. That's going to make yours special compared to your neighbor - some day.

 

[eprosenx]

I second the request for lots of pictures of the outside meter base / panel plus the inside one.

Pictures of the breaker handles, of the sticker on the door with all the gory panel details and of the “panel schedule” that lists what each circuit is for.

Optimally we woood get pictures with the panel covers off if that can be done safely.

I specifically want to know what size of conduit currently goes to the utility transformer (pictures of the transformer would be useful also), and what gauge and type of wire is currently in that conduit.

Assuming that there is currently a conduit to the utility transformer, one option might be to convince the utility to pull copper wire instead of aluminum in the existing conduit. While copper is expensive, it is vastly cheaper than 14k. It will give you a lot more current capacity for the same gauge wire.

Also, it is possible that even with aluminum wire you may be able to pull a larger conductor size in the existing conduit.

P.S. There are likely lateral boring contractors that will put in a new conduit for you for under $14k. You don’t need to hire an electrician to mark up the boring contractors work. The actual electrical work is likely pretty small since once the conduit is in, it is on the power company to hook it up and pull in wire. You only need an electrician if you need an upgrade to your meter base or panel.

 

[NeverFollow]

Apparently the condo unit I am living in is a single 100A line from the street to a dual meter panel.
So each unit has 50A available max.

I am a little confused between the single 100 A line and the 50 A circuit breaker?

After checking my breaker I believe my service is technically 120V/50 total for the unit.
The exterior 50A breaker lists 120V on it not 240V....I need to move

I would be great if you can put a picture of both panels,
and if you can, could you remove the cover to see the number of the wires going from the panel to your home?

Also, can you see any transformer in the street. and if so can you see how many wires are connected to your line?

1. I have the impression that you may share a two single phase 120 V 100 A line from the street and then have 3 wires.
- If so, you should get on each panel, a dual 50A circuit breaker. (This would allow you to have a 240 V plug)

2. Otherwise, I would think that you may share a two single phase 120 V 50 A line from the street and then 3 wires.
- If so, you should get on each panel, a single 50A circuit breaker.

3. Another possibility would be to have only one single phase 120 V 100 A line from the street and then have 2 wires.
- If so, you should get on each panel, a single 50A circuit breaker.

Unless you have a very old electric system, I think that you might have the 1. case above.

Now if I do the napkin math per Tesla I save about $5000 a year so this new construction
would pay for itself over a period of 3 years technically.

I made the following quick calculation and I have difficulty to find such number.

- If I drive 100 miles a day (an spend 2 hours driving at 50 miles an hour a day)
for 300 working days I would drive 30,000 miles a year.

- If I have a 30 miles / gallon car and let say a gallon costs $4.00,
I would burn 1,000 gallons and spend $4,000 of gas a year.

In the case of the Model 3, I estimate that I can drive 300 miles for about 80 kW of electricity.

- If the electricity is $.20 / kW, driving 300 mile would cost $16.00,
and then 30,000 miles would cost $1,600 of electricity a year.

So in the case of a 30,000 miles a year and a $0.20 kW, I would save (4,000 - 1,600) = $2,400 saved.

To save $5,000 then you must drive 60,000 miles a year?
(or 200 miles a day and spend about 4 hours at 50 miles an hour every day)

I currently drive 40-60 miles a day

It would be interesting to verify your own calculation based on your mileage and the cost of electricity per kWh.

In the case of Tesla website, there is a Gas Savings of $4,300 but this is over a period of 6 years
(and for about 12,000 miles a year and $.12 kW)

*Taxes and fees not included. Price includes savings of a $7,500 Federal Tax Credit
and estimated gas savings of $4,300 over 6 years.
Depending on where you live, you can save even more with local incentives.


You can perform your own saving estimate including Supercharger usage: Tesla Model 3 Fuel Savings Calculator

Is it normal for these upgrades to cost so much?

The estimate is mostly about Labor.

Did you get a detailed estimate about the number of days and number of workers doing the trench and the wiring?

I would say that it's a 5 days and two workers type of work, or a total of (8 h/day x 5 days x 2 workers) = 80 hours.

Let estimate a $150 / hour, so the Labor cost would be (80 x 150) = $ 12,000

The remaining $2,000 would be $500 for a Electric Permit inspection, $500 for all the electric wiring and conduct,
and a remaining $1,000 for various contract fee....

If you were making a trench in your backyard, this would not be too difficult and costly,
but making a trench in a street require a lot of type of permits and inspections...

- Are you the owner or a tenant?

If you are a tenant, talk with your landlord to get a new line installed.

If you are a owner, try to talk with the other owner to see if you could share the cost.

You could also hire someone to perform the trench inside your own property (driveway and alleyway) or make it yourself(?)
to save a little bit on the Labor.

Am I crazy for wanting to be able to charge faster than 4 miles an hour? Any suggestions here?

Best is to have an L2 plug at least (240 V 20 A or 30 A) otherwise just keep your 120 V 12 A.

If you can charge for 10 hour every night, you get 40 miles, which seems sufficient for your need
and will also covers the EV phantom/vampire drain.

And use a Tesla supercharger or a public L2 charger to get additional range if you plan a trip,
or don't use your car for a day to get it fully charged.

 

[forkee]

1) Yes, that is crazy. Most people will not even spend $500 for the HPWC even if they drove more.

2) Go ahead and trickle charge every night. You will recuperate most of your daily driving.

3) Supercharge back to 90% if you get below 20% and maybe if passing by (since you drive 40-60 miles, there should be at least one location)

4) It would take decades to break even on $14k

Even if you drove 60 miles/day, after getting 40 of that back each night from charging, your total battery range would only deplete by 20 each night. You should still be at 60% by the end of the week, which would basically top off by the start of the next week even if you just charge 10 hours each night when TOU rates are the lowest

 

[SigNC]

how is there only 50amp going to the unit? What happens if you run the dryer, oven, AC and a hair dryer at the same time?

 

[NeverFollow]

how is there only 50amp going to the unit? What happens if you run the dryer, oven, AC and a hair dryer at the same time?

It would be useful if the OP mention if there is also a secondary panel inside the home and show a picture of it.
Also, giving a list of the installed appliances, number of rooms and electric plug, type of heater.

In my personal case, for the mail panel above my electric meter, I have a 60 A dual main circuit breaker.

Inside my home I have a secondary panel with:

- A dual phase 50 A circuit breaker going to a NEMA 10-50 240 V for an electric range and oven.

- Two separate single phase 20 A circuits breakers going to the Fridge and the second to the garbage disposal.
There is also an additional plug on each line in the kitchen,
so I can plug a microwave on the first phase, and a mini toaster oven on the second phase.

- Two separate single phase 15 A circuits breaker for the living room and bedroom, used for all the lightning and basic 12 A plugs.

- The heater use natural gas.

- There are shared washing machines and dryers using natural gas.

 

[ivan801]

I would first consider quick220. That would be an easy way to double your charge rate. You will need to find a second outlet that is on a separate breaker and on the opposite phase. If you don't have an easy access to an outlet on the opposite phase you can swap breakers around in your panel.

Next step up would be to upgrade your current outlet to 240 V 15 amp (or 20 amp if wiring can support it). That is easily done, an electrician should be able to do it in under an hour. No need to upgrade wiring, just need an extra open slot in your panel.

And as Akikiki said, I would keep on asking. There is got to be way to get some more juice from your 50 amp panel. Perhaps you are asking electrician wrong question. Instead of asking how you can get 50 amp charger outlet ask if they can get you ANYTHING more than what you have.

Whatever you do, please do not pay $14,000.

 

[NeverFollow]

And to be accurate, its not $14,000 for a Tesla charger. It may be $14,000 to upgrade your condo service

The title was confusing, thank you for mentioning it.

 

[jkoya]

Apparently the condo unit I am living in is a single 100A line from the street to a dual meter panel. So each unit has 50A available max

I probably would consider how long you plan on living at the condo before spending the $14,000.

 

[NeverFollow]

Apparently the condo unit I am living in is a single 100A line from the street to a dual meter panel. So each unit has 50A available max.

It is not clear if it is a single phase or dual phases? The easy way is to see if the circuit breaker is a single or a tandem circuit breaker.

In the case of a dual phase, a 240 V 20 A Max (16 A at 80% charging rate) would be not so bad and better than using a 120 V 15 A (12 A)

On the Tesla Website, a 240 V 20 A is listed as providing 15 miles / hour compared to a 120 V 15 A providing 3 miles / hour.

 

[Sophias_dad]

It is not clear if it is a single phase or dual phases? The easy way is to see if the circuit breaker is a single or a tandem circuit breaker.

In the case of a dual phase, a 240 V 20 A Max (16 A at 80% charging rate) would be not so bad and better than using a 120 V 15 A (12 A)

On the Tesla Website, a 240 V 20 A is listed as providing 15 miles / hour compared to a 120 V 15 A providing 3 miles / hour.

BTW, you don't really mean dual phase, but rather 'split-phase'.. but that's not super important....

Unless every heat-related large appliance in OP's condo is gas-powered, (s)he has to have 240V. I'm mainly describing the oven/range/clothes dryer/CentralAC.

But yeah, even getting 240v/15-20A would probably be fine for daily use.

 

[NeverFollow]

BTW, you don't really mean dual phase, but rather 'split-phase'.. but that's not super important....

Yes, I mean a three wires (Hot-Hot-Neutral) which allows installing a 240 V plug by opposition to a two wires 120 V line.

But the OP did not clarify this point.

Unless every heat-related large appliance in OP's condo is gas-powered,
(s)he has to have 240V. I'm mainly describing the oven/range/clothes dryer/CentralAC.

But yeah, even getting 240v/15-20A would probably be fine for daily use.

I am in a kind of similar situation, I have a tandem 60 A circuit breaker and there is a NEMA 240 V 50 A for a range oven.

The home heater uses gas, there is no AC. and the washing and dryer are shared and use gas.

If you charge at night there should be no problem but the code for installing an EV plug might required anyway

to have a disconnect box to stop the UMC when the total load reaches 80 %.

 

[Dana1]

To make a long story short I recently purchased a Model 3 and was going through the usual process of seeing what I am able to do in regards to charging since I currently drive 40-60 miles a day and get about 4 miles of charge an hour each night on a standard outlet. I purchased the wall charger and after reaching out to an electrician that Tesla recommended a couple months ago they call me back yesterday stating that they have good news and bad news. The good news was that So Cal Edison would run higher wattage cabling to my condo unit for free. The bad news was that it would require trenching, running new conduit from the street and cutting up the driveway and alleyway leading from my unit to the street to accomplish this. For a total cost of $14,000.

Apparently the condo unit I am living in is a single 100A line from the street to a dual meter panel. So each unit has 50A available max. Now if I do the napkin math per Tesla I save about $5000 a year so this new construction would pay for itself over a period of 3 years technically. Is it normal for these upgrades to cost so much? Am I crazy for wanting to be able to charge faster than 4 miles an hour? Any suggestions here?

You got a second quote right?

 

[Olds442]

Move somewhere that isn't current deficient.

 

[Zaxxon]

Given your relatively low daily mileage, step one while you figure this out should be to swap your outlet for a 5-20, assuming your panel and wiring support it. That's a $5, 10-min job and will boost your charge power by 33%.

 

[alloverx]

Worst case can you get your nearby condo's to also upgrade their setup at the same time to split the cost?

 

[golfpilot]

Find two regular plugs on separate breakers and merge them...

 

[SMAlset]

Is this a condo you own? Don't think it's been asked. Is there any other place in your condo (assume it's an association) where maybe the association has a parking space or two near electrical that they would be willing to look into putting a ChargePoint in for the association to use. Maybe there's some grassy spot that could be converted so the space could be dedicated to EV charging (know there is a ratio of parking spaces required in places so that wouldn't change the ratio). Let the ChargePoint be a billing charger so the association doesn't pay for the electricity. May not be an ideal solution and sure to also get use by others but it would help homeowners get some mileage when they get home. Maybe set a 2-4 hour limit. Just an idea. I know older properties sometimes have nice open space areas...before real estate went through the roof and open space shrank.