This is one of the many reasons I haven't paid the hi cost of AP yet. The cameras/sensors don't see far enough back to make an intelligent decision. The approaching vehicles from behind don't show up on my screen until they are a few feet from my car. I feel it to be very risky. After the last update, I see cars spinning out of control both in front of me and coming up behind me especially while waiting at a light. Freaks me out. They say it's just a representation of what it sees, but it is actually a misrepresentation of your surroundings. Still can't trust my life to a cars ability when I see this.
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16.2 Near Collision w/ Auto Lane Change
- Thread starter pitabun
- Start date
RSL2020
Member
Anyone else think the lane change would have been completed without incident? Not arguing safety because its hard to tell the distance form the side repeater.
SanDiegoM3
Member
I’ve kept my car on confirm all lane changes since I got it. Everyone else can be my beta tester.
It is really too bad the screen isn’t captured with the Tesla dash cam. Would have been interesting to see if the car in front was showing or not.
Very scary, I hate those mid change corrections that AP does. Always afraid the guy behind me is going to have taken up the space I was leaving already and the car will have reacted too quickly for me to catch. Now I see the car might lose track of the guy in front too. Good to know.
Very scary, I hate those mid change corrections that AP does. Always afraid the guy behind me is going to have taken up the space I was leaving already and the car will have reacted too quickly for me to catch. Now I see the car might lose track of the guy in front too. Good to know.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Yikes, I also think it was the lane splitting motorcycle that caused it to jerk back. Not good! Thanks for sharing.
It was the SUV not slowing down that caused this reaction. Happened to me a few times and its always because the vehicle in which I'm attempting to change lanes into is not slowing down.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
AP isn't intended to be used on roads with cross traffic, oncoming traffic, or stop-lights though so your example doesn't really have anything to do with AP
I like AP, but it always feels like it isn't taking things into account that are not pretty close to the car; ie, it doesn't feel like it can see moderately down the road. From what I understand of HW2.5, they both crop and down-sample the video, so this makes sense. Which will naturally result in situations like what the OP posted above (didn't account for the car in the right lane slowing down ahead). Similar things happen in merge situations (ie, where you very obviously need to move a lane left to make room for incoming merge traffic on the right, but it feels like the car doesn't see what's going on in the right lane).
Please contact Tesla. This is a great example for them to look into.
follow.johnny
FSD Beta Tester
I think everyone can agree with this point:
Auto lane change works perfectly with no cars around you
Auto lane change works perfectly with no cars around you
calidreamz808
Member
I agree. Coming from the east coast, I still am bugged out with the lane splitting motorcycles here in california. I wish they would do away with it. It's so dangerous for everyone on the road, and the motorcycles expect car drivers to always hear and see them.. which as we know is not the case. Especially when most of them fly down the freeway splitting the lane.. its really scary.
SunCharged
Member
You’re absolutely right. It’s the contrast of concrete/pavement types. I’ve had this happen to me on I-196 in MI before the current construction.
I have a similar situation to this on autopilot I tried to save from a few days ago I’ll look for now.
Ulmo
Active Member
Bad calculation causes self doubt and self doubt causes accident.
Need more brain!!!
(Need enough brain to know what it can do; if too retarded, should pull over until brain rehabilitated. Same as any human, only computers shouldn't get as sleepy, tired, or sick, so that means the computer is brainwashed bad. Make sure incident gets posted to mothership (your huge braking reaction probably already did that).)
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Ulmo
Active Member
Maybe, but it calculated wrong: a corner impact with the other car (that you almost hit) would twist you around and snap your neck and get a side impact from the oncoming SUV and you would still hit the bike, killing yourself, and many other people, but if you just move to the part of the lane beside the bike, likely you can share the lane, and if it still kills the biker, at least it doesn't hurt you, which is more important since it's your car, not the bike driver's car. You are first. Is Tesla suicidal, or does it protect its owner?
Edit:
I just watched again; in addition to all the above, the bike had all sorts of space to evasive into the next lane to its left. See this and next attachment:
Also, the Tesla was too slow to move over into the new lane, waiting way too long to move over. Hesitation causes all sorts of other bad things to happen; if the Tesla had moved into the new lane sooner, the bike would have had even more reaction time. See this attachment, which happened before the above attachment:
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Ulmo
Active Member
That much is true, but I ask: did you hear or see the bike approaching?
It's not that hard. Bikes take the risk, and you let them. If they scuff you, you still win. Tesla should know! Tesla is already in California!
Yes. Clearly the maneuver would have completed right if Tesla had not hesitated and instead went over all the way into the new lane. It also would have completed safely if it did it completely when it decided to, even though it had taken some time to initiate the maneuver. Of course, even with a sooner lane switch, a little je ne sais quoi in how it switched lanes to give the bike a few little inches of room to spare could have been a bit helpful in the pool of probabilities, but still, cars take precedence over lane-splitting bikes on roads, so the Tesla wouldn't have to put itself at risk in order to save the errant lane splitter.
FYI, the law says they (the SUV in this example, not the motorcycle) have the right of way and need not slow down.
Yes, but as soon as you realize that the risk is on them (the bike), not you, then you can relax a lot more.
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Thanks for all the feedback, I did report the incident to Tesla.
I didn't hear or even know there was a motorcycle until looking at the footage.
I always pay attention when NoA is enabled, but it's not a light switch, sometimes you are more alert than other times.
I didn't hear or even know there was a motorcycle until looking at the footage.
I always pay attention when NoA is enabled, but it's not a light switch, sometimes you are more alert than other times.
This is a perfect example of why I would never trust NoA in traffic situations like this.
The danger of NoA simply canceling a lane change even without any visible reason is just too high. I've had it cancel properly (due to a car approaching at high speed), and I've had it cancel without any logical explanation. I'll still use NoA in areas with consistently moving traffic that is very light. But, the second it gets to the point where one or more lanes is backed up or there is moderate to heavy traffic I turn it off.
It's simply not decisive enough in the decisions it makes.
I think I'd feel more comfortable with NoA auto-lane changes if there was rear corner radar.
Something to augment the camera and provide either redundancy or extra information to improve it's reliability.
The danger of NoA simply canceling a lane change even without any visible reason is just too high. I've had it cancel properly (due to a car approaching at high speed), and I've had it cancel without any logical explanation. I'll still use NoA in areas with consistently moving traffic that is very light. But, the second it gets to the point where one or more lanes is backed up or there is moderate to heavy traffic I turn it off.
It's simply not decisive enough in the decisions it makes.
I think I'd feel more comfortable with NoA auto-lane changes if there was rear corner radar.
Something to augment the camera and provide either redundancy or extra information to improve it's reliability.
EdisonDrvr
Member
Good video. The lane change is way too TENTATIVE...unlike the rest of the car, lane change is now idiotically stupid. The car will make a near PERFECTLY timed lane change only to jerk spastically back into the original lane. Not only is this potentially unsafe it makes you appear like a complete fool to other drivers. If the car with 8 cameras, radar and multiple proximity sensors is unable to perform a simple lane change without aggressively jerking back into your initial lane....FOR NO APPARENT REASON...then FSD is indeed many many years away. Lane change is NOT improving at all.
smatthew
Active Member
Why do you care what other drivers think of you? Lane changes aren't cancelled for no reason. There is always a reason, or a number of reasons.
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