18" summer tires versus lower-rated "all season" tires

[dspwhite]

TSportline sell 18" wheels to fit on the P3+, but they only sell: Continental DWS06 All Season, Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Michelin X-Ice Xi3, Michelin Primacy MXM4

Judging from Tirerack and some other sites, it looks like the Pilot Sport 4S tires are the highest rated and the others score significantly lower (apart from the Xi3 winter ones which I don't want), so I'm trying to coax myself into buying the PS4S. However they're summer tires.

My question is: How many people here use summer tires on their Model 3D or 3P in UK-winter-like temperatures where going below 32F (0C) isn't amazingly frequent, but going below 50F degrees (10C) is.

If I'm careful on the road in the winter and don't try to push it too much, will I be okay?

Also, do many track with PS4S tires? What's the worst that can happen there?

Are there any really decent "All Season Summer Bias" 18" tires you can get for the Model 3? How about Michelin's PS3 A/S ? Are those summer biased?

 

[Knightshade]

PS4S will be fine at 50 F. Even at 35-40F it'll be fine if you're not doing anything crazy, especially if the roads are dry.

Much below that though- I wouldn't drive on em at all below 35-40 F if there's any moisture on the road.

I had Pilot Sport summers on my previous car and I did have to drive them once or twice in ~25 degree F weather when I had no real choice- but only on dry roads, and VERY carefully, and I still lost traction once on an off-ramp I took slightly higher speed than I should have (just a little slip, nothing major, but enough that I drove super conservative the rest of the way).

If you commonly need to drive much below 40 (and don't want to swap winter/summer tires- which is best of both worlds but somewhat extra work) and still want good performance tires, get the wheels without tires, and get Michein A/S3+ tires- they're as close to the PS4s as you'll get in all-seasons.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

f I'm careful on the road in the winter and don't try to push it too much, will I be okay?

From Tire Rack's description of the PS4S - I don't know whether this is from the manufacturer though, or even specific to the PS4S - I was not able to find this specific verbiage on Michelin's website. That said, it's not an appropriate tire to use in freezing conditions in any case - it won't have any grip.

"Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced."

Also, do many track with PS4S tires? What's the worst that can happen there?

The PS4S will disintegrate on the track when used with the Model 3 - the vehicle is too heavy for them and does not have a stock camber adjustment so all the wear ends up on the outer shoulder. There are several pictures posted elsewhere here of destruction of the tires in a single event. It does depend on conditions (heat) and the driver, of course. They don't take well to drifting. I used them in a wet autocross and they held up ok - just a bit of steaming (not smoking...which is good!).

The PS4S, particularly the Tesla-specific version, is an excellent tire; I love it, but it can't be used year-round in a climate that has a real winter.

 

[kgoroway]

get the wheels without tires, and get Michein A/S3+ tires-

Is it really worth all the effort over just getting the DWS06 from tsportline?

 

[Knightshade]

Is it really worth all the effort over just getting the DWS06 from tsportline?

What "effort" besides having a shop, which you can have both wheels and tires shipped to, mount and balance the tires- which takes like 20 minutes?

 

[Rachmaninov]

A better tire makes a large difference in the cars actual performance , whether it is a better summer tire or a better snow tire etc.

You should also note that IF a tire manufacturer states that a specific model shouldn’t be used under a certain temperature then you could be held accountable in any accident under that temp. There are way too many individuals out there nowadays that would love to blame you even if they caused the accident.

 

[kgoroway]

What "effort" besides having a shop, which you can have both wheels and tires shipped to, mount and balance the tires- which takes like 20 minutes?

I'm not saying it's a lot of effort but:
a) Order from TSportline including tires (and mounting them myself in my garage, at my leisure, knowing it is being done correctly) [I already have all of the required tools to do this]

versus:

b) Order from Tsportline (just rims), order TPMS (from tsportline, or elsewhere where they are cheaper), order tires from somewhere else, pay for mounting/balancing/installing, and hope that they are doing it right, and watch them closely to make sure that is the case (unless you already trust them to work on teslas?)

In the end, I think you can *probably* save some money by going with "B", and you *do* get the tires that you want...but back to my original question...

Are the A/S tires from Michelin really *that* much better than the DWS06? The DWS06 tires are well reviewed.

 

[22522]

I'm not saying it's a lot of effort but:
a) Order from TSportline including tires (and mounting them myself in my garage, at my leisure, knowing it is being done correctly) [I already have all of the required tools to do this]

versus:

b) Order from Tsportline (just rims), order TPMS (from tsportline, or elsewhere where they are cheaper), order tires from somewhere else, pay for mounting/balancing/installing, and hope that they are doing it right, and watch them closely to make sure that is the case (unless you already trust them to work on teslas?)

In the end, I think you can *probably* save some money by going with "B", and you *do* get the tires that you want...but back to my original question...

Are the A/S tires from Michelin really *that* much better than the DWS06? The DWS06 tires are well reviewed.

For me the A/S wanders more than the DWS06.
The A/S feels like a pilot super sport.

 

[dspwhite]

The PS4S will disintegrate on the track when used with the Model 3 - the vehicle is too heavy for them and does not have a stock camber adjustment so all the wear ends up on the outer shoulder.

Would that apply to the following tires too: Vredestein Quatrac 5, Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady, Michelin Primary Tour A/S, or Michelin Cross Climate + ? Those tires are apparently rated pretty well.

How about if assuming beginner to intermediate track ability?

The PS4S, particularly the Tesla-specific version, is an excellent tire; I love it, but it can't be used year-round in a climate that has a real winter.

I'm worried even if it goes below 7 degrees celcius (45F). Some say it feels like on ice even then.

 

[dspwhite]

order TPMS (from tsportline, or elsewhere where they are cheaper)

I don't think Tsportline rims+tires package comes with the 4 TPMS widgets. You still need to obtain them separately. Can't you just take the TPMS off your existing stock Tesla wheels/tires?

pay for mounting/balancing/installing, and hope that they are doing it right

Do they need the car to put the tires on the rims for balancing purposes, or can they just put them on without even seeing the car? If the latter, then just let them put the tires on the rim, and balance them. You can then do the mounting of the entire wheel (rim+tire) to the car yourself.

Are the A/S tires from Michelin really *that* much better than the DWS06? The DWS06 tires are well reviewed.

According to the reviews from Tirerack, yep: https://i.imgur.com/Rxplg8j.png

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Would that apply to the following tires too: Vredestein Quatrac 5, Goodyear Assurance WeatherReady, Michelin Primary Tour A/S, or Michelin Cross Climate + ? Those tires are apparently rated pretty well.

How about if assuming beginner to intermediate track ability?

I would not use any of the above tires on the track over the PS4S. Though possibly they would not disintegrate, they will not do well.

For example, the Crossclimate is somehow rated well on the link you provided. You might think they were grippy. But I have used them on my car and they are not even close to the performance of the PS4S. It's just no comparison. They really are not that grippy. Definitely not terrible, but not even close to the PS4S.

I think you have to account for the people rating these tires, and also for people assigning ratings relative to the type of tire. For example, the Crossclimate+ has pretty decent grip...for an all-weather tire. So it gets a high score.

I think you can't compare the ratings across tire classes.

If you want a racing tire, you really have to get a new set of tires and wheels which allow you to run a wider tire, and probably want to replace your upper control arms with ones that allow adjustable camber to make them last reasonably well. Or you need to get tires that do not use asymmetric tread (like the PS4S does), so you can have them remounted to balance the inside and outside of the tire wear. But that's probably not worth the hassle.

In the end, racing cars is very costly for tires. And with the heavy Model 3, the problem is really exacerbated.

RE-71R is a good racing tire. But note that RE-71R is TERRIBLE for using on the street!

 

[Rachmaninov]

Lots of good info (especially specific to the Tesla 3).

It should be obvious to all but it appears to need repeating. Tires can significantly change the whole car experience.

Tires designed for a particular function be it OEM, closed track, noise, longevity, mileage, etc almost always perform better in that function AND worse in the other functions.

The trick is to determine what YOUR actual needs are, what compromises on functions you’re willing to make and how you can achieve your goals. You should also remember that the same exact tire will perform differently if it’s on a 4000 lb car vs a 2500 lb car.

Multiple sets of different tires for different functions might be ideal if space, time, and cost are not a concern.

Be realistic in your needs vs wants and you’ll have a good result.

 

[dspwhite]

But I have used <the Crossclimate tires> on my car and they are not even close to the performance of the PS4S.

You're not the first person to make these kind of claims. Despite my hope of compiling a universal table with comparable ratings, I will have to agree with you, especially where people who are used to All-Seasons may not have even tried a proper Summer or Winter tire. And so yep, I intend to separate the table into four categories: Winter, Summer, All-Seasons and Track. I'm thinking of including the Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R into the Track category, even though it's meant to be "Extreme Performance Summer".