Well I may have an issue with my preheating. I usually try to preheat for 30 mins but even with that amount of preheating the battery hasn't heated up which someone on reddit informed me isn't normal. Either way part of the perks of having an ev is not using a brake pedal. I want that experience regardless of the outside ambient temperature.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
1st Electricity Bill since purchasing the tesla.
- Thread starter VV1975
- Start date
I just don't actually think Tesla has set it up that way to where it will continue to preheat the battery all that way up to hot enough to completely eliminate the regen limiting. It will certainly get it up out of the really cold, but I'm not sure it sets the battery temperature target that high when using that cabin preheating function.
It's not the new octovalve's fault actually. It's the thermal mass of that 1000lb battery - it takes a LOT of energy just to raise it a few degrees. You usually need it at/above 20C (68F) for close to full regen. The new heat pump system in the Model Y or the 2021 Model 3s doesn't really help do this more efficiently or faster.
Preheating the battery for that long will cost an enormous amount of electricity. It's pulling about 8kW average when preconditioning like that - for half an hour, that's about 4kWh. 4kWh will take anywhere from 4.5-5.5kWh or so from the wall to actually charge up, let's say 5kWh. Doing that once or twice a day really adds up, especially if you have a short commute. Most of your energy may actually be for preheating rather than driving.
That 4kWh is the equivalent of roughly 16-17 miles of range (didn't pull exact efficiency numbers so that might be slightly off).
Average electricity cost in the US is about 13.9 cents per kwh... 75 kwh battery in the 3/Y would cost on average $10.43 to "fill" from 0.
Of course you won't generally do a 0->100 charge, and there's some transmission loss.
The average MPG of the US gasoline fleet is about 25 mpg, and $2.40 is the average cost of a gallon of gasoline nationally.
So $10.43 would get you ~108.65 miles of range using MPG and gas price averages.
EV consumption varies by driving style, weather, tires, etc...but even if you knock off 30% of rated range you should get 2x that much range out of an LR 3 or Y for the same amount of money.
But that's all averages. A 50 mpg hybrid probably isn't TOO far off from a 3/Y driving in the winter on sticky tires (though the EV should still comfortably beat it otherwise using average electric costs)... and folks in places like NYC and Hawaii are paying nearer 30 cents per kwh.
Other folks are paying way less (I pay 2.79c per kwh to charge overnight for example).
I hear Tesla solar is pretty affordable
The "transmission" loss can be very important. It costs an extra 37% to charge on a standard North American 120V outlet due to these losses, for example. It's much much worse if any battery heating is needed on 120V.
Redditor was very incorrect. If you want the full one-pedal experience in winter, it's going to be very costly and take quite a bit of time to heat the battery (assuming the battery is "cold" [anything below, say, 15C or 59F]). A 10 minute preheat does almost nothing for warming the battery in my experience, for example. The owner's manual also recommends something crazy like 30-40 minutes for this purpose - anything less doesn't make a huge impact to amount of available regen.
It does actually get it to the point of basically eliminating noticeable regen limitation. But it also takes an incredible of amount of time and energy to do so (unless the battery was already fairly warm, then it will never get warm enough for that since it will not have triggered battery heating).
This boils down a little simply to:
Someone wants the "just right" driving feel of full regen, but does not like high energy usage.
These are incompatible goals. Both options are available, but one must choose.
Someone wants the "just right" driving feel of full regen, but does not like high energy usage.
These are incompatible goals. Both options are available, but one must choose.
This is really good info thanks! I guess it works out that if I do want a warm battery (maybe prior to going down am mountain side) I should preheat for a long time but otherwise the energy usage is more than a lot of the small trips I'm making in the car!
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
If your EV needs are such you deeply care about the edges of range, charge, etc then you're not charging on a 120v plug anyway, you're on 240.
No. Unfortunately $20 increase is too optimistic. Maybe if you have solar and don't get winters where you live.
Oh! Yeah that's true we shall see. I'm sure any change in charging will be offset by the amount or normal house electric goes up in the summer but gas goes down so that's nice =D
As I recommended in some other posts, don't preheat the battery just because you think it will be more efficient in the winter. It is more efficient but the power you use to preheat will be more than what you gain back from efficiency. Preheat the cabin till it's warm, (takes about 5 mins in the pre 2021 models).
Only preheat longer if you are plugged in and don't care about the car pulling extra power from your house or preheat if you are heading to a supercharger to charge up, the extra charging speed from a warmer battery is worth it. A cold battery charges VERY slow.
Your post made me think of it, I just realised Tesla is also partly responsible for the rhetoric on the car being "more efficient" when warm. It's in their marketing materials currently for sure (they advocate to precondition for a more efficient drive... technically true and incredibly misleading) and even in the owner's manual I think. Tesla seems to care more about how you feel about the car than being ultimately efficient.
I'm not sure. I know that if you only have Powerwalls and no solar that you should be able to charge from the grid. It would probably take some finagling but I think you would be able to get Tesla/Xcel to allow you to charge the Powerwalls from the grid since there's no solar on-site.
I like this idea if only to move to a TOU plan and save 2c a wh and use the batteries during the day to power everything else
diamond.g
Active Member
Ignoring new (2021 and Model Y) vehicles, preconditioning on the mains is more efficient than doing it on battery, from a range perspective. Tesla used to not bother heating the battery at all in the 3 (above some absurd low temp) but folks complained about slow charging (resulted in the supercharger warming message) and no regen (now car tries warming battery when preconditioning).
They probably could have avoided some of this by allowing range mode selector like they did in the S, but for whatever reason they chose not to.
That seems shockingly high. I'm in Michigan and am averaging 320 wH/km for short trips, including often setting cabin heat to 72F with seat heaters on for my girlfriend's preference
. Generally it doesn't make sense to preheat for that long for short trips, unless your car is encased in ice. Also, battery heating isn't going to be necessary for those types of temperatures except occasionally initially for 240V charging. That preheat period can be eliminated by plugging in when you return home. The car will not actively heat the battery outside of charging unless you get MUCH colder than that (I believe the active heat target is set well below 0F per Scan My Tesla). I think the takeaway here is that you could make a few behavior changes that have essentially no impact on the usability or functionality of your vehicle and STILL pay less than half of the $/mi figure of your Impala under worst case winter conditions. Averaged over the course of a year, you'll come out way ahead.
As for the kool aid drinking, I agree and that is one of my pet peeves on this forum and other Tesla forums. We should be able to debate and criticize aspects of our cars and Tesla as a company without everyone rushing to their defense or ignoring. However, in this thread I see a few people cherry picking worst case data points to "prove" that their Model 3 is more expensive to operate than their ICE. While that's obviously possibly true for specific drives, specific times of year, or even specific edge cases, I think if most of those people ran the numbers for a year they would find that the operating costs of the Model 3 are 1/3 to 1/2 of what they would be for a similar sized ICE.
Oops... My brain doesn't want to admit that it's 2021, so I didn't realize I was replying to a post from a year agoThat seems shockingly high. I'm in Michigan and am averaging 320 wH/km for short trips, including often setting cabin heat to 72F with seat heaters on for my girlfriend's preference
I think the takeaway here is that you could make a few behavior changes that have essentially no impact on the usability or functionality of your vehicle and STILL pay less than half of the $/mi figure of your Impala under worst case winter conditions. Averaged over the course of a year, you'll come out way ahead.
As for the kool aid drinking, I agree and that is one of my pet peeves on this forum and other Tesla forums. We should be able to debate and criticize aspects of our cars and Tesla as a company without everyone rushing to their defense or ignoring. However, in this thread I see a few people cherry picking worst case data points to "prove" that their Model 3 is more expensive to operate than their ICE. While that's obviously possibly true for specific drives, specific times of year, or even specific edge cases, I think if most of those people ran the numbers for a year they would find that the operating costs of the Model 3 are 1/3 to 1/2 of what they would be for a similar sized ICE.
JCtx
Member
Damn; that's the equivalent of 7.3 MPG. Ha ha. I'm waiting for my first bill, but hope it's not as bad as yours. Paid $36.87 on my last bill. I should be getting it at any time. Also need to check if my city charges less overnight, but I'm charging almost always past 8pm anyway.
XLR82XS
D M C
I checked my energy bill every month for the first year of Tesla ownership and have not noticed an increase. My bill always stays between $80-120 per month. 2000 sq. ft. single family home with A/C always on from April-November (S. FL), pool pump, modem, fridge, lights, etc...
I always charge off-peak hours.
I always charge off-peak hours.
JCtx
Member
I just got mine, and it was $11 more expensive... but we were on vacation for a week, plus haven't driven much. And the increase could have been partly due to other things. Electricity is more expensive in summer, so I expect my electric bill to raise more in summer. My guess is I should pay around $25 more a month in winter, and probably $50 more in summer. We'll see. I have free supercharging for a year, but was told it's not good for the batteries, so I'm not using it, except on the weekly long trip mentioned above.
Similar threads
