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2017 Investor Roundtable:General Discussion

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I'm quite curious as to how you could reach this conclusion. Demand is obviously very strong, as they posted record S and X VIN assignments in Q4 and so far about 4,000 S VINs and 4,000 X VINs have been handed out in the first 3 weeks of Q1 (i.e., 16,000 S VINs and 16,000 X VINs, total of 32,000, if trend holds and there's 1 week of downtime - which would be another record).

No reason for deliveries to be down, especially given the huge overhang.

As far as I can tell, there aren't any production issues and AP2 issues have been sorted. If you have heard differently I'm very interested in learning.

Just looking at the delivery page. Some quarters it is spot on, other times not so much. It's all tea leaves and kremlinology to me. Model S 185,xxx are showing up as Q2 deliveries, so it seems Tesla is not planning on delivering more than 10,000 in Q1, from current production. That's my limited understanding of the delivery tracker and feedback on the Model S & X forum pages. I don't work in Tesla supply chain or logistics and I don't get Elon's daily production data, so I don't know what Q1 will be. It may be early to try to estimate, but the tracking pages look different versus Q3 and Q4.

Model S Order & Delivery 2017
 
Can The Rising Chevy Bolt Dent Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA) Stock In The Long-Term?

Who writes this garbage?

Linked Article said:
Aggressive Pricing Not Sustainable Over The Long-term
The Bolt lacks in hype and styling but it more than makes up for it in performance, pricing, and more crucially, availability. With a driving range of 238 miles, it comfortably pips the Model 3 which has a range of 215 miles. Further, at a price of 30K after tax breaks, it's considerably cheaper than the Model 3, quite a strong selling point in a price-conscious market segment. Indeed JPMorgan has placed a Sell rating on TSLA with a $180 price target (26% below the current price) citing the risks posed by aggressive pricing by ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) manufacturers:

No.
Its not.

Bolt MSRP $37,500 - $7,500 = $30,000. (Never mind that there are reports of dealers adding a $5000 "Market Adjustment" to the pricetag).

Model 3 MSRP $35,000 - $7,500 = $27,500.

This is simple math.
 
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OT (really OT)
read "Seven Eves" about 1/3 of the way through, Elon or an avatar, literally saves the remnents of humanity by using/stealing an atomic engine to bring in an ice comet from 1/2 across the solar system to boost the ISS to a higher orbit, dying in the process
Seveneves is one of the best novels I've read in the last few years. Highly recommended!
 
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A litte more info on the new Manufacturing Council

"
Dow Chemical CEO Andrew Liveris was nominated as the head of the council by Trump last month.

He headed a meeting on Monday at the White House. Musk was present along with several other industry leaders who are now also joining the manufacturing council. CNBC reports:
The group of business leaders includes Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk and chief executives of large American companies like Ford, Dow Chemical, General Electric, Boeing and Lockheed Martin. Richard Trumka, president of the labor federation AFL-CIO, will also give advice.

"

Tesla CEO Elon Musk joins President Trump’s new manufacturing council, again getting closer to the new administration
 
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This appears to be the exact sitting arrangement for the Trump tower meeting in December, not the White house meeting that just happened. Safra Catz did not attend the Jan 23 meeting.
Please provide a link for your clip if I am wrong. Otherwise, you are confusing people by posting a clip from the Trump Tower meeting 40 days ago, in response to my comment about the white house executive meeting on Jan 23.

If you want to believe they changed his name tag from 40 days ago be my guest, but the only factual evidence we have shows "Tesla" on the name tag during a meeting with the president. No photos that I could find from the recent meeting were clear enough to read.
 
I suggest a quick look at the Smoot-Hawley tarriff:
Smoot–Hawley Tariff Act - Wikipedia
(I quote Wiki because the more robust sources have fee walls.
Warren Harding is a definite precursor. He produced the Teapot Dome scandal and numerous other criminal activities and was famous for womanizing. He did not even come close to matching the terminal stupidity of Herbert Hoover who brought us the treats of tariffs that ended out happening and delivered the Great Depression.
This was 20th century American knowhow. Now we'll see what happens in the 21st. Bizarre leading off with anger that Mexico resisted an ultimatum.
Is it time to go to cash?
Cash? WHICH cash?
Imperial Russian Roubles worked out very badly in 1914. Reichsmarks were trashed after WWI. Most of the paper currencies were devalued in the 1930s. In the US, the dollar was devalued and private gold was confiscated, and that was one of the *best* results for cash...

If you're expecting really serious geopolitical trouble, investing in local housing seems safer than cash or gold to me. Land nationalizations and confiscations are actually extremely uncommon; when they happen it's usually primarily to agricultural land and often doesn't affect residences. If you think you'll have to flee the country, obviously, you'll want something more portable, but otherwise...

FWIW, the tariff is NOT considered to be the major cause of the Great Depression by serious historians or economists. It didn't help, of course. The immediate cause was of course the business cycle, but it is general consensus that it was turned into a Great Depression by tight-money, balanced-budget, anti-Keynesian economic policy, which Hoover was *fanatical* about. Recent economists have also pinned blame on high inequality (low taxes on the rich, low wages and high debt for the poor) and extremely unregulated debt and stock markets, both of which were major aspects of the 1929 crash.
 
Just looking at the delivery page. Some quarters it is spot on, other times not so much. It's all tea leaves and kremlinology to me. Model S 185,xxx are showing up as Q2 deliveries, so it seems Tesla is not planning on delivering more than 10,000 in Q1, from current production. That's my limited understanding of the delivery tracker and feedback on the Model S & X forum pages. I don't work in Tesla supply chain or logistics and I don't get Elon's daily production data, so I don't know what Q1 will be. It may be early to try to estimate, but the tracking pages look different versus Q3 and Q4.

Model S Order & Delivery 2017

Its still early in the quarter yet, we don't have much data, and its misleading to assume that those few 2Q deliveries scheduled in the 185xxx - 186xxxs are representative of the anticipated end of 1Q VINs. There are some 170xxx cars delivered in 1Q, even though most of 176xxx were delivered in 4Q. It looks like the last week of December was when most of the 177xxxs were built.

It appears that the factory is currently producing cars in the 185xxx to 186xxx range based on a few vehicles scheduled for late 1Q deliveries reaching production start this week. They're obviously not going to stop producing cars for the next 8 weeks.

With 7,000 vehicles overhang from 4Q, plus ~7,000 VINs already produced this quarter (consistent with about a 2900/wk run rate if Model S/X split is 60/40 as it was in December), you're definitely wrong on 10,000. You've also forgotten about Model X not being in that tracker.

I would say that we are likely to see somewhere in the neighborhood of 30k deliveries in 1Q17.

I base that on a 2,400/wk run rate (which was suggested as what the 4Q exit rate was to be) with 12 successful weeks of 13 actual weeks in the quarter, plus a 1200 car drawdown on the overhang. I consider this a conservative estimate based on knowledge we have.

An optimistic estimate based on the data we have would be 2,900/wk apparent rate from the tracker, 13 weeks of production, plus a 4k drawdown on the overhang gets to over 40k cars.

Thus, my range is 30-40k.
 
Cash? WHICH cash?

If you're expecting really serious geopolitical trouble, investing in local housing seems safer than cash or gold to me. Land nationalizations and confiscations are actually extremely uncommon; when they happen it's usually primarily to agricultural land and often doesn't affect residences.

agree with this- If you're projecting major economic regression (sever recession or worse)- even moderate recession but prolonged;
Local income producing real-estate is excellent and much better than cash (outside of your living requirements of course).
I believe volatility risks are high currently (coupled with very high P/E in securities)- but I'm not in the cataclysmic camp. Positive yield curves and other counter measures are currently contrarian to that imo. Never-the-less I've done well using real-estate as a good investment Put that doubles as a Call. I treat it like an investment spread that provides backstop to strong higher risk TSLA (and other).
my 2c
 
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Its still early in the quarter yet, we don't have much data, and its misleading to assume that those few 2Q deliveries scheduled in the 185xxx - 186xxxs are representative of the anticipated end of 1Q VINs. There are some 170xxx cars delivered in 1Q, even though most of 176xxx were delivered in 4Q. It looks like the last week of December was when most of the 177xxxs were built.

It appears that the factory is currently producing cars in the 185xxx to 186xxx range based on a few vehicles scheduled for late 1Q deliveries reaching production start this week. They're obviously not going to stop producing cars for the next 8 weeks.

With 7,000 vehicles overhang from 4Q, plus ~7,000 VINs already produced this quarter (consistent with about a 2900/wk run rate if Model S/X split is 60/40 as it was in December), you're definitely wrong on 10,000. You've also forgotten about Model X not being in that tracker.

I would say that we are likely to see somewhere in the neighborhood of 30k deliveries in 1Q17.

I base that on a 2,400/wk run rate (which was suggested as what the 4Q exit rate was to be) with 12 successful weeks of 13 actual weeks in the quarter, plus a 1200 car drawdown on the overhang. I consider this a conservative estimate based on knowledge we have.

An optimistic estimate based on the data we have would be 2,900/wk apparent rate from the tracker, 13 weeks of production, plus a 4k drawdown on the overhang gets to over 40k cars.

Thus, my range is 30-40k.

It will be interesting to track. Perhaps we'll know a bit more as February data starts coming in and January numbers for Europe show up. Asia is just hard to know. Anything over 25000 will be cash flow positive, excepting M3 capex and profitable.
 
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Amazing, thanks for the link!

download.jpg
 
Also - to the person that suggested TE 1Q revenue is only going to be 100M? I think you're wrong there too. Mira Loma alone was $20M, and I'm sure we'll continue to see powerpacks going up in big clumps (though admittedly maybe not quite as big as Mira Loma.)
Remember, we won't see Q1 numbers until, probably, May.

That'll be an interesting time for the stock. I think there will be massive uncertainty over when Model 3 will release.

Q2 numbers should be released in August or so. There will probably still be massive uncertainty.

Q3 numbers should be released in November, and that will be a *very* interesting time for the stock. If there are *any* Model 3s shipped in Q3 I expect one hell of a pop. Though who knows, stock prices are crazy in the short term...
 
Very crude/early Q1 delivery estimates

2400/wk production x 12wks=30,000

or very rough VIN method
Q4 orders were generally cut off in US in late November; Europe/Asia earlier.
Dec. 1-Jan. 24 Model S VIN assignment running at about 5000/month (186xxx-177xxx*62days/55days).
Model X Dec. 1- Jan. 22 VINs running at about 4750 per month (39xxx-309xx)*62days/53days).

So about 9750/month S/X VINs is the current VIN issuance run-rate over the past 2 months or so. A small drawdown from 6500 in transit gets you to 30,000. So say 28-30K, very roughly.

I don't think the April-June 2017 Model S deliveries listed on the spreadsheet are meaningful. There are only 5 listed. 1 is for Europe, 2 didn't request earliest delivery and 2 are listed for delivery in "Late March-April," so could still be delivered in Q1. Model S Order & Delivery 2017

Big wildcards are whether there is a need for shutdown/slowdown for Model 3 production and whether there are any delays/hiccups ramping up volume of 100D. On 100D seems like they had quite a bit of time to work out any production bugs with P100D so the risk seems low.

This is all very rough so take it with a grain of salt but seems likely that unless there are production delays due to Model 3 should be a strong quarter for S/X deliveries.
 
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