The Leaf is supported by a pretty substantial high speed charging network. There are a ton of CHAdeMO chargers on the West Coast at least and a lot of Nissan dealers have high speed chargers on premise. I'd feel quite comfortable taking a Leaf with 150 mile range anywhere on the West Coast at least. Like I said, the Leaf may not be in exactly the same class as a Model 3 but it certainly brushing right up against the edges. Were it not for my Model 3 reservation (mostly because of the Autopilot/autonomous abilities) I'd be all over a new Leaf. The price is very tempting.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
zmarty
Member
On paper only. Blink chargers are often offline. And Nissan dealers are small dictators. Some of them only allow you to charge there if you bought the car there, at least in this area. Other dealers lock up everything after hours. I am sorry but for me the infrastructure is just not there for quick charging a Leaf.
Later edit to show you how much I pay currently for quick charging:
EVgo rate: 20 cents per minute (best case about $0.32/kWh - EVgo DC Fast chargers are limited to 30 minutes sessions)
Blink rate: $0.59/kWh (WA State)
How much I will pay if I buy a Tesla:
Tesla rate: $0.11/kWh (WA State - this is actually cheaper than charging at home by 2 cents)
Now that I see it all broken down I am pretty happy that my next car will be a Model 3. Also, the Model 3 will charge much faster in miles per time.
Last edited:
chronopc
Active Member
Also even at places with working chargers, they only have a few stalls. There's no place with 20 stalls like Tesla have.
Seriously people, stop talking the Leaf 2 up. It's a perfectly find car but it's no where near the level of the Model 3. You can rationalize it anyway you want, but you are just forcing a comparison that shouldn't be compared.
Leasing the Acura was amazing for us. $2,000 down and $209 a month for 36 months for a reliable car with decent features that msrp'd for over $28,000 was awesome. Buying it via financing after the lease for a fair/low residual was okay, too, though our payment did go up to $300. Honestly, it's hard for me to imagine not leasing or car-sharing for the rest of our car-dependent life (which could come close to ending if I'm ever able to convince my wife to join me as a bike commuter). Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me anymore to own an expensive depreciating asset, especially with tech and refinement advancing so rapidly.
mmd
Active Member
It appears that was a false rumor being spread by anti-Nissan, anti-Leaf FUDsters. 62 mph was mentioned for Japanese roads. In US, ProPilor is available till 90 mph. If the software is ready, who needs nightly updates and daily temper changes , as in Autopilot? Things have gone downhill sometimes with the auto updates.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Actually, the source was a Nissan press release related to the LEAF2 reveal in the US
My suspicion is that "full" ProPilot is limited to 62 mph while some functions like DRCC and LKA continue at higher speeds. One thing is for sure though, attestations to its grandeur, or even Tesla like AP2 functionality, are wildly premature.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the press kit originally said this:
"Nissan Intelligent Driving
Headlining the new LEAF’s Nissan Intelligent Driving technology are ProPILOT™ Assist, e-Pedal and the company’s heralded Nissan Safety Shield. ProPILOT Assist is a single-lane driving assistance technology. Once activated, it can automatically control the distance to the vehicle in front, using a speed preset by the driver (between about 18 mph and 62 mph)."
However, the last part has now been changed to: "(between 20 mph and 90 mph)"
Overview: 2018 Nissan LEAF
If you look at the google cached version it still shows the old version.
Overview: 2018 Nissan LEAF
Google cache will probably clear in the next update, so for more permanent evidence, you can see the leaf forums where people quoted it.
Leaf Gen 2 - New Nissan LEAF World Premier on Sep 5, 5:30 PM PDT - Page 4 - My Nissan Leaf Forum
tescroft
In Musk, we trust.
Not in my opinion. I agree the Model 3 event in 2016 was less polished in terms of showeffects and bling bling and Elon might not be the best speaker due to its stummeling. But to me, this marketing blabla with replacable managers shown in this Nissan Event is just boring. The words of Elon are wise and deeply meaningful. He is authentic. His statements or side comments make so much sense in a bigger context. You need some context knowledge sometime to understand what he means - something that a lot of journalists seem to lack sometimes. What Tesla and Elon is promoting is reasonable and fullfills a strong an meaningfull vision. The texts at Nissan/Toyota/<insert car manufactorer> presentations are just polished marketing bla bla memorized by dolls.
EV-Tech Exp
Member
I plan to buy a 2018 Leaf, not because I think it is the best EV out there, but because it fits my needs better than an i3, e-Golf and Zoe, and as a UK resident, sadly we do not get the Bolt and the model 3 is realistically 2 years away from our shores.
Correction... the Leaf is supported by a medium speed DC charging network designed for urban daytime charging at tremendous expense, with substantial government support. It is the wrong way to design a DC charging network and comes about only because of very low range BEVs like the Leaf. It tends to promote daytime and evening charging that increases grid usage at the worst times. The actual long distance CHAdeMO network is very poor with low charging rates and few plugs (sometimes 1 plug) at critical locations and often poor reliability. If the EV transformation was properly planned, the CHAdeMO network as installed in the U.S. would never have been built. The Zoe’s set up made much more sense... high speed AC charging. There is no mass adoption of low range BEVs for long distance travel, so trying to use lots of taxpayer money or incentives through regulation to do so makes no sense.
I would say the new Leaf is a step in the right direction, but just a baby step.
One of the problems that keep EV and hybrid sales low is the image.
At first, hybrids and EVs were slow and overpriced. A bad combination if the buyer likes cars. It's not acceptable if buyers see EVs as appliances either, since you don't go out and buy the most expensive dishwasher that does the fewest dishes. The only buyers were the Save The Whales groupies. To be brutally honest, everybody laughed at this group, even South Park.
$31k stripped (I count destination) for a less lethargic, but not exactly 'brisk' driving experience is still not a bargain. 8 second performance for $31k with few features isn't going to sell based on value except to Whole Foods customers.
Tesla transformed the market. The expectations are different today. People who like cars can buy EVs now. Toyota and Nissan did not do the EV industry any favors yet.
One of the problems that keep EV and hybrid sales low is the image.
At first, hybrids and EVs were slow and overpriced. A bad combination if the buyer likes cars. It's not acceptable if buyers see EVs as appliances either, since you don't go out and buy the most expensive dishwasher that does the fewest dishes. The only buyers were the Save The Whales groupies. To be brutally honest, everybody laughed at this group, even South Park.
$31k stripped (I count destination) for a less lethargic, but not exactly 'brisk' driving experience is still not a bargain. 8 second performance for $31k with few features isn't going to sell based on value except to Whole Foods customers.
Tesla transformed the market. The expectations are different today. People who like cars can buy EVs now. Toyota and Nissan did not do the EV industry any favors yet.
EV-Tech Exp
Member
I currently drive a diesel, so really although I'd like the long range, my strongest desire is just to get into an EV for commuting to work asap, though at 55 miles each way I haven't had much choice as sadly I cannot afford a model S.
I think her video is meant to illustrate that point: such things are needed to make travel practical. Hopefully they materialize and are convenient/affordable to use. I don't think she was intending commentary on announced but not-yet-built infrastructure.
However it does sound like the severe "stair stepped" taper was an additional issue for her. She mentions that even though at a 24KW charger the car "had been" charging at only 18KW . At that point she was at 170 miles (~70%), so I don't know how long she had been stepped down to the reduced rate.
Hopefully they are able to improve the taper with an OTA update. Certainly all EV's (including Tesla's) deal with that, but the nature of the Bolt "curve" seems to make it a bit more impactful, and lessens the utility of higher-power stations.
The problem of using absolutes like you do in your assertion for things that are subjective topics is that... well... they're subjective.
The Leaf may be in a similar price segment. And it is also an EV. So certainly competition from that standpoint.
However with significantly less range, questionable battery reliability/longevity, inferior fast-charging capability, and a very different styling aesthetic, there are a great number of folks who will conclude "it's no contest".
Because the pool of BEV vehicle choices is so small, there's going to be more comparisons and competition amongst sales.
But there are enough significant differences that I don't think it's a "no brainer" that they certainly are competitors the way most people agree that a BMW 3 Series, Mercedes C-Class and the Audi A-4 are.
The smug episode was in 2006 and had the Gen 2 Prius. By the time it aired sales were already over 100,000 per year. Also, it's sad, but the thing people miss about the smug episode (particuarly those who tend to refer to it) is that South Park was attacking people both for self-righteous pseudo-environmentalism and also for not caring.
The 0-60 in 8.9 seconds is the same as the Gen 1 Volt which has never been considered to be a poor performer. Devil will be in the details.
Remember that performance of US vehicles is greater than average. The same cars purchased in the USA are often sold elsewhere with smaller engines. A peppy 0-60 in 8.9 seconds will compare well in other markets.
EpiKAC
Member
Thank you again for proving this simple point. You are right that a great number of people will conclude "it's no contest", but there exists a segment of people who will disagree. That in itself is all that's required. It IS an absolute, period.
Think of it this way. The New York Jets and the The New England Patriots are competitors. They are both professional football teams playing in the NFL. With that being said, not many people in their right mind would choose the Jets over the Patriots in 2018, but some will. That's all this comes down to.
To most people out there, Tesla is a far better option than the Leaf. And to most people out there the Patriots are a far better football team than the Jets. In a hypothetical example 9 out of 10 people would likely choose the Tesla. Yet someone would choose the Leaf and have their own reasons for doing so. And if the Jets played the Patriots 10x this year, it's very likely the Patriots would win 9 of those 10 games. But the Jets are still a pro team filled with pro athletes and have the ability to pull the rare upset as well.
Just because we can all agree that the Tesla is the better car does NOT mean that the Leaf isn't a direct competitor. It is. And a solid one, even if it does fall short for all of us on this forum.
Last edited:
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
This is consistent with my impression that DRCC does not have a 62 mph limit.
So people who are actually considering a LEAF2 for the tech should realize that they will pay ~ $2k for DRCC, NOT ~ $2k for Tesla level AP2. I actually consider that a fair price because DRCC is awesome and still a pricy option in general*, but AP2 it is not.
*One of the many stand-out features of the Prius Prime is its safety and driver assist features that are in the base Model on up. The DRCC is a gem; I hope Nissan has as good an implementation.
Similar threads
