Finally the moaning can end.....er, move on to the price of the required adaptor (and of course "where's Type 1 CCS support!!!!11!1"
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2019.24.1 supports CHAdeMO, and CHAdeMO vs CCS adaptor size
- Thread starter SammichLover
- Start date
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Most of the Chademo chargers in my area are CCS was well, and that looks like a much simpler adapter. I'll wait for that one to arrive rather than the humongous Chademo.
I can understand a focus on the faster speeds the new CCS chargers will support but I'm not sure what Type 1 cables that you've been looking at to come to the above conclusion?
Eno Deb
Active Member
Well, assuming a North American CCS adapter would be similar to the European adapter, I believe this picture explains it.
I can understand a focus on the faster speeds the new CCS chargers will support but I'm not sure what Type 1 cables that you've been looking at to come to the above conclusion?
That's an assumption.
Type 2 and Type 1 have some important structural differences in how they physically connect.
Although I was talking about the connectors themselves, not the adaptor to the Model 3. The Chademo's design might have been made more compact, and its current physical form is just a vestigial thing. Is it the same part as the Model S and X use, it sure looks like it is the same part. It is possible that the adaptor can be made smaller, and Tesla won't bother to for Chademo because that'd be extra engineering and manufacturing work.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Not really. But the point is that Tesla has obviously found a way to implement the CCS adapter as a passive adapter.That's an assumption.
Type 2 and Type 1 have some important structural differences in how they physically connect.
Type 2 is car latched, the Type 1 is cable latch. The DC pins themselves are the commonalty but those are both this glommed onto very different base connectors.
Eno Deb
Active Member
Chademo plugs are much larger than CCS plugs.
Why does it matter if it latches or not? The same is true for J1772 and Mennekes, but that hasn't kept Tesla from making an L2 adapter.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I was physically handling both of them side-by-side just last weekend (I can't speak to what the camera angle is at and why the design decisions here were made by this particular cabinet maker).
I own a CCS Type 1 car, too. And have used a Chademo on a Leaf once.
You could call them "equally fugly each in their special own way", but to assert Type 1 is better in UX? I repeat: L-O-L
<edit> You do realize that Electrify America, is a VW proxy, has a vested interest in making the Chademo as unattractive as possible? That the Chademo cable is there at all on that cabinet was EPA compelled as a consequence of them being unscrupulous dirtbags.
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Eno Deb
Active Member
You're laughing because it's true?
They had a "support all the standards" requirement so they have a Chademo cable that will get blocked by someone using the CCS cable on the same cabinet, and the Chademo is limited to only one cabinet at each site. (That they have 2 cables, and pretend each is a viable location to charge, is a separate but related bizarre rules lawyering dodge).
They had no interest in having Chademo on those cabinets, but were forced into it because the whole operation is a penance fine. Of course, being dirtbags, they're going to try uglify the thing that doesn't plug into their own vehicles and is a standard they wish would just go away (in the long run that'll almost certainly happen, but due to their past folly not today).
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Eno Deb
Active Member
Well, the picture above is from an EVGo charger, so I guess they must also be part of the big conspiracy where everyone picks huge Chademo plugs to make the system look bad.You're laughing because it's true?
It is smaller. You can't see that? Maybe it is because you're focused on the vintage design Tesla adaptor that you also wanted to get in there?Well, the picture above is from an EVGo charger, so I guess they must also be part of the big conspiracy where everyone picks huge Chademo plugs to make the system look bad.
<edit> And there are newer Chademo cables out there without even the handle loop, way less bulky at the back end. That isn't actually a requirement, which I think is what you're looking at?Again, I've recently handled them side-by-side (at a non-EA charger, each with its own cabinet and power). The cables themselves are both fugly in the same order of magnitude, just in their own ways. I didn't bother to take pictures, I guess maybe I should have?
P.S. And the Type 1's cable located lock is a recipe for bad maintenance news.
<edit> That's not a difference from Chademo, though. :/
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EfficientWatts
Member
You were saying?
Well, the picture above is from an EVGo charger, so I guess they must also be part of the big conspiracy where everyone picks huge Chademo plugs to make the system look bad.
You are twisting the narrative and you know it.
Look at the actual spec sheet for the connectors:
CCS1 (this isn't the exact connector but the handle style is similar, if someone can find we can update): http://rema-ev.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/CCS-1-150-Connector-Data-Sheet-201604.pdf
Chademo (this is the exact one): EV Quick-Charger Connector Assembly (CHAdeMO Conformity)SEVD™-Series | Sumitomo Electric Industries, Ltd.
Code:
CCS1 Chademo
Body length: 308mm 302mm
Connector Height: 119mm 78mm
Back height/handle: 202mm 184mm
Connector width: 76mm 78mm? (not listed, but since chademo connector is round reused connector height)The CCS1 looks smaller because the Chademo one has the handle. There are CCS connectors that are more bulky depending on the design.
LOL, what a coincidence. @MD-2000 happened to snap and post pics of one of the very same cabinets I saw in the last week. Canadian CHAdeMO charging
Yes, I was indeed "saying" @Eno Deb .
Yes, I was indeed "saying" @Eno Deb .
Could there be a difference in expected force necessary the plug/unplug the ChaDeMo vs Type 1 CCS connectors? Perhaps the reason ChaDeMo often has such bulky handles is for you to have something significant to hold on to... It would certainly explain the beefy handle on the ChaDeMo adapter too.
Comparing the physical design of the connections I could certainly see there being greater friction at play on the ChaDeMo side.
Comparing the physical design of the connections I could certainly see there being greater friction at play on the ChaDeMo side.
Nah, it is vestigial reasons. That pic that I linked to above of a newer cabinet really brings home what you can do (and Electrify America of course is playing dirty pool).
"It should look and feel like you're hooking up the power supply for a Krupp Bagger 288" was all the rage. Starting at the basic connector spec level. Look how they are both massive. The CCS was is a total Frankenstein design where the actual DC power portion itself, where you could argue some size is needed to future proof for much higher V and A, is quite a bit smaller, then it has all that other crud along for the ride. There is simply no good reason for all that girth.....unless you never really had it in your heart for the general public to use them to start with.
The Tesla Adaptor, too, is probably a product of this. It has a bunch of electronics in it that appear to be simply translating signaling between the cable and the car, there's a full out processor and a large PCB in there (this that weird loop down around on the Chademo side) with a bunch of sensors and stuff. It was likely a skunkworks hack project and it was easier to do it that way for such a project than program in the car itself to handle the signaling, because cost and size and aesthetics didn't matter. This wasn't the intended future route, always meant to be niche/glue until other car manufacturers came to their senses....a longer wait than was anticipated.
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Eno Deb
Active Member
ROFL. You guys are hilarious. I know that the Chademo adapter is helpful for some people, but how can anyone look at it and say with a straight face that its usability is the same as the compact CCS adapter's? Take a look at this video starting at 2:45:
The handle doesn't make it "look" bigger, it makes it bigger. And the body itself is almost always thicker as well, which is simply a result of the round design. I'm sure you can find some CCS plug that has a bigger casing than the smallest Chademo plugs along some dimension, but that doesn't change that just about every Chademo plug you encounter in the real world is a big and heavy beast, handle or not.
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