2023 Model Y no USS discussion, incl. Discussion of Tesla Vision Firmware

[tangible1]

Most are fine with how it will work. The problem is it was taken out before the replacement was ready and given people little choice but to bend down and take delivery.

accusing people of acting childish because of this is itself the childish thing.

the problem is obvious

not addressing you as childish
just suggesting the explanation being lost on many

 

[hmadsen]

I still find it a bit misleading, when i go to the tesla website (for my country) and go to order a new Model Y, they give me the option to buy the advanced autopilot and they, right now list the features you will gain as being.

1. Navigate on Autopilot
2. Automatic lanechange
   
3. Autopark
4. Summon
5. Smart Summon

Nowhere on the order page or in the description of the functions does it state that 3 of the 5 functions are disabled, and will "maybe" be enabled at a later date.

I would even argue that this is false advertising, and if someone complained, they would risk getting a fine for false advertisement.

I would be angry if i ordered this package and only found out after, that 60% of the advertised features i paid for, was not available even though they were advertised as part of the bundle.

 

[Flemingo]

For those of you doubting that non-uss vehicles can do park distances, please remind yourself that your non-uss vehicle already warns you when you get close to objects in the highway (other vehicles, pedestrians, bicycles or bins) using cameras

The occupancy network creates a 3D map visualisation which is updated 100 times/second as you move (watch this to understand how that works). This means that even if the camera cannot see an object in front of you right now, it was mapped and tracked at some point in the past.
It is true that the very first time (T0) after a vehicle is produced, it won't be able to see some area around it, unless it starts moving. Once it does, then it starts mapping objects, achieving spatial awareness which is currently used for collision detection and avoidance. This can be easily used for parking sensors, but they are waiting for accuracy parity & v11.3, to have more confidence that park distances are accurate.

Given the current releases, it looks like we may have park distances back within 1-6 months from now

Intrigued…what facts do you base your opinion on regarding availability?

I am definitely interest in an explanation how a camera based system that can’t see over the extremities of the car will know about objects in those blind spots before it starts moving?

Fancy buying my car off me if it’s not?

 

[Alex0070]

Intrigued…what facts do you base your opinion on regarding availability?

I am definitely interest in an explanation how a camera based system that can’t see over the extremities of the car will know about objects in those blind spots before it starts moving?

Fancy buying my car off me if it’s not?

I work in the field. Based on previous migrations (radar to tesla vision in 2021) and the dev cycles around that time. My car has no uss, either.
Like then, this transition won't be perfect on initial release, but it will improve with future updates. Note that standard autopilot is not perfect either, but decent enough for daily use

 

[SANTRI]

Picked up my Model Y Performance this weekend. California build with no sensors. Kicker is I paid for enhanced autopilot and now I can’t use half of those options.

Will full self driving still work without those sensors?

Don't feel bad people from 201x are still waiting.
There is a lawsuit going on...and now this

Top Tesla engineer confesses he staged inaccurate Autopilot video at Elon Musk’s bidding

The video that served to launch Tesla's vaunted Full Self-Driving feature was never "intended to accurately portray what was available for customers" according to testimony by Ashok Elluswamy.

fortune.com

 

[Spinkick]

I know I wont touch advanced autopilot or full assisted driving until they figure this out. What a strange thing to remove sensors without having a fully working system to move to. I hope they get punished in some way, as well as not updating their advertising to their new customers that some functionality that they advertise is not available.

 

[Paprika]

....as well as not updating their advertising to their new customers that some functionality that they advertise is not available.

I just picked up my 23 MY, part of purchase agreement before I got my VIN was a document talking about how park assist etc was not available at this time but would be added in a future update.

 

[Spinkick]

They must be catching on. I just got mine too on the 10th and dont remember seeing that.

 

[RedY23]

I took delivery of my 2023 about 2 weeks ago and I have USS.

How is that fair that the same flipping car for the same price and model has so many differences between customers. That is disgusting Tesla. Like my car came with mud guards and some here dont get them. I have a MYPR 2023.

 

[Flemingo]

I work in the field. Based on previous migrations (radar to tesla vision in 2021) and the dev cycles around that time. My car has no uss, either.
Like then, this transition won't be perfect on initial release, but it will improve with future updates. Note that standard autopilot is not perfect either, but decent enough for daily use

Thanks, respecting your expertise timing is still just speculation though? I certainly agree with you on autopilot not being perfect with the phantom braking incidents I have had! Test drove a Volvo and their solution seemed much smoother and more confidence inspiring.

 

[Alex0070]

Thanks, respecting your expertise timing is still just speculation though? I certainly agree with you on autopilot not being perfect with the phantom braking incidents I have had! Test drove a Volvo and their solution seemed much smoother and more confidence inspiring.

Yes, we can only speculate and estimate right now. Unfortunately, developers are not usually allowed to take decisions when it comes to when features are shipped. Each team has its own dev cycles, and there is a lot of manual testing, simulations and soft releases before the final update. Keep in mind that updates may be released to a small number of vehicles before broad release.
That said, if the Model 3 revamp comes true after the Investor day, tesla vision can't be far off.
The previous transition from radar to vision took roughly a year. So our worst case scenario here is roughly Q4 2023, but I believe we will have that within Q2-Q3. We will have a better understanding in the next couple of weeks.

 

[jeewee3000]

Yes, we can only speculate and estimate right now. Unfortunately, developers are not usually allowed to take decisions when it comes to when features are shipped. Each team has its own dev cycles, and there is a lot of manual testing, simulations and soft releases before the final update. Keep in mind that updates may be released to a small number of vehicles before broad release.
That said, if the Model 3 revamp comes true after the Investor day, tesla vision can't be far off.
The previous transition from radar to vision took roughly a year. So our worst case scenario here is roughly Q4 2023, but I believe we will have that within Q2-Q3. We will have a better understanding in the next couple of weeks.

Could you elaborate why you expect Investor Day to have an influence on the Tesla Vision timeline?

If anything I'd think the FSD version 11 timeline is relevant to Tesla Vision, not the Investor Day. (which will concern scaling of battery manufacturing and perhaps Model 3 refresh/Generation 3 platform mainly, not Tesla AI).

 

[Alex0070]

Could you elaborate why you expect Investor Day to have an influence on the Tesla Vision timeline?

If anything I'd think the FSD version 11 timeline is relevant to Tesla Vision, not the Investor Day. (which will concern scaling of battery manufacturing and perhaps Model 3 refresh/Generation 3 platform mainly, not Tesla AI).

It is difficult to predict whether or not Invetor Day will play a role in this.
My assumption is that since we saw HW4 related confidentiality papers being submitted by Tesla in January and February, they have been carefully waiting until HW4 is ready to be installed in new vehicles. It looks like they are redesigning model 3, so that it gets HW4, 4680 cells and a much lower price, which might be announced on Investor day.
If all this is true, then HW4 will be ready to be installed in other vehicles as well, at which point they will have to broadly release tesla vision to the public. It is unlikely that they will fork their software, so that the new model 3 runs on tesla vision with parking sensors, whereas HW3 can only have sensors via USS. This is bad software architecture and I hope that they have resolved this chaos before even announcing HW4 (probably on Investor day)
Take my words with a pinch of salt, Tesla does unexpected things quite often

 

[hmadsen]

It is difficult to predict whether or not Invetor Day will play a role in this.
My assumption is that since we saw HW4 related confidentiality papers being submitted by Tesla in January and February, they have been carefully waiting until HW4 is ready to be installed in new vehicles. It looks like they are redesigning model 3, so that it gets HW4, 4680 cells and a much lower price, which might be announced on Investor day.
If all this is true, then HW4 will be ready to be installed in other vehicles as well, at which point they will have to broadly release tesla vision to the public. It is unlikely that they will fork their software, so that the new model 3 runs on tesla vision with parking sensors, whereas HW3 can only have sensors via USS. This is bad software architecture and I hope that they have resolved this chaos before even announcing HW4 (probably on Investor day)
Take my words with a pinch of salt, Tesla does unexpected things quite often

Rumors speculate that HW4 will come with a reintroduction of a (Much better) front radar, better camera's and possibly USS reintroduced.

To be honest, if they get the camera based "USS sensor" system working properly, i dont care that it does not have USS, i know there are blind spots, and whatnot, but honestly, i as the driver am still responsible for driving safely, and our other car does not have USS, and we are not constantly bumping into things.

If they change it so that FSD will need the radar, new cameras and HW4, i would imagine that the price for FSD would include upgrades to these pieces of hardware, but i am not sure, if this is a feasible upgrade, and if the mounting points, wiring harness and so on, is in new cars, to make the radar retrofittable.

 

[cab]

So Investor Day is rumored to be more about the long term picture - which may equate, at least in part, to Robotaxi (note: batteries are the other BIG item for everything). Clearly Robotaxi is heavily dependent on autonomy and thus HW4 may very well get some discussion as a result since it is undoubtedly moving that forward.

 

[tangible1]

So Investor Day is rumored to be more about the long term picture - which may equate, at least in part, to Robotaxi (note: batteries are the other BIG item for everything). Clearly Robotaxi is heavily dependent on autonomy and thus HW4 may very well get some discussion as a result since it is undoubtedly moving that forward.

every "xx Day" comes with rumors, speculation, and wishful thinking in the run-up to the event.
Tesla runs a Master Class in Internet Marketing; no one leverages the blogs so well (like TMC).
Nothing gets out that Tesla doesn't want out; 'leaks' are anything but.
Take in the blogs at your peril.

 

[SPF]

Tesla made the decision more than 6 months ago to remove USS. 6 months!! That’s a long time. The only reason they did so is to save money. Any other explanation is a lie and misinformation that they hope the fanboys would eat up and defend till wit’s end. Random clips on YouTube about the functionality of “Tesla Vision” is not proof of functionality. At what point do those that pay $6000.00 or more for EAP that doesn’t work get their money back? At what point will those that paid thousands for a fake promise get invited to their local service center for a hardware installation to gain the EAP features for which they already paid? The $6000.00 or more shouldn’t be a loan to Tesla but it is. Obviously, there has been no proof of viable function because it doesn’t exists. Just one man’s hubris and thousands of well intentioned optimists. Adding radar behind each bumper would/should be the easy fix to gain the paid for functions. By now the supposed great software company should have had this figured out but obviously their plans have failed. Soon I feel the only remedy will be a massive refund or new hardware installation (radar not USS) for those who paid thousands for EAP. I’d hate to see a class action move to get a remedy.

 

[Frankb70]

I wonder whether UK consumer law has more teeth. This has all the fundamentals of breach of the Sale of Goods Act in advertising features, deferring fulfilment (“coming soon”) and then not delivering in a reasonable timeframe. I also have in writing from Tesla that my car will require no hardware upgrades for these features to be delivered.

The other important note apart from "coming soon" was Teslas statement "for a short period of time" these statements can only be described at porously misleading at best.

 

[Jerryr]

This afternoon the EDD for my existing inventory NYAWD that I ordered on 2/10 no longer showed a VIN or Delivery Date either on the APP or the WEB Site.

The web site had this disclosure with a button to proceed with Delivery. I never was notified that the Ultrasonic Sensors were mot on my prebious ordred 2023 MYLR taht I picke up in December. It was a big disappointment. I guess Tesla is trying to cover the butts.

I clicked Proceed With Delivery and then the EDD and VIN Appeared

--------------------------------------

Tesla Vision​

We are taking the next step in Tesla vision. Your vehicle now fully relies on camera vision to measure distance to nearby objects, deliver active safety features, and provide Autopilot and Full-Self Driving capability (if purchased). This new approach enables improved visibility, better object detection, and greater abilities for Autopilot in the future. With this move, your Model Y is no longer equipped with ultrasonic sensors, which will temporarily impact some features. Learn more

Proceed With Delivery

-------------------

Estimated Delivery: February 23 - March 18​

We will reach out to schedule your delivery soon

 

[Jayanth484]

I have my delivery scheduled for my 2023 MYLR (obviously without USS) by next week..
And today, I saw changes to my delivery agreement and it says that ‘your vehicle now fully relies on camera vision to measure distance to nearby objects’..
See screenshot..
When I click ‘learn more’ it is still saying ‘park assist’ is coming soon..

Does this mean they’ll start rolling out atleast ‘park assist’ with tesla vision soon?

Any opinion ?