2024 Model 3 LR AWD is now eligible for the $7500 tax credit [posted 06/17/2024]

[mreynolds767]

If for an order yes. But for inventory, if the non credit eligible person chooses to lease the credit eligible car and the eligible person wants to buy one and all they have is non eligible cars, you cut your SAM on the inventory cars. There is nothing keeping the non credit eligible person from taking the eligible car. It’s not that big of a deal, but my point was it wasn’t straightforward genius.

The "New Inventory" cars do not have their actual VIN# listed to my knowledge.
Many times Tesla may show 1 vehicle on the website as in inventory and available for immediate pickup at x location BUT they could in fact have 10 of the same matching config. ; so in those cases (the popular configs) they could easily have some i and some e and assign them to the appropriate buyers and the buyer would never be the wiser.
This is also why the actual inventory count for Telsa is much higher than reported on sites like Telsa Info as these matching configs in the same lot are counted as only 1 vehicle.

If the inventory car is being sold as i on the website ; one can assume with high confidence they have no matching e version. But if they have both they could sell them as e on the site and then assign them once purchased/leased.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

This video has bits of the charge curve of the Highland Performance, which looks better but they only just plugged in, which makes the complete charge curve look too good usually.

Yeah not sure what to make of that. No idea whether preconditioned properly but certainly was not at 250kW at 25%.

On the other hand 250kW at 14% being the start of taper seems too low from this data, unless there is initial peaking as you say. They have added 5kWh here though.

Kind of impossible to say. Out of Spec presumably has better data.

 

[eivissa]

Here is a US charge curve that looks exactly like the European one:

 

[Jeremy3292]

Good to hear. I don’t know about the @eivissa numbers then? Something about European superchargers? No idea. This does make more sense; 14% seemed very low. You have a post-April-2021 LR it sounds like? (Before that is 2170C.)

Yes, August 2021 build date.

This verified 2170L by battery pack part number or CAN Full Pack When New value?

Confirmed via part number through wheel well, see our posts in old thread tagged to post #2,244 below:

MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

Incase anyone needed to know how to check https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/master-thread-2021-model-3-charge-data-battery-discussion-etc.214484/page-18#post-5229099

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes, August 2021 build date.


Confirmed via part number through wheel well, see our posts in old thread tagged to post #2,244 below:

MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

Incase anyone needed to know how to check https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/master-thread-2021-model-3-charge-data-battery-discussion-etc.214484/page-18#post-5229099

teslamotorsclub.com

Seems like we just need data from the vehicle in question. Seems possible there are different limits per vehicle.

This stuff is so important but it is difficult to get good data.

Still seems likely that LG is significantly slower but need that from a properly proven pre-conditioned Highland review in the last few months in the US.

 

[Jeremy3292]

2024 Performance charging in the video below. At the 21:21 mark it briefly says 258 kW at 26% SOC, but then says 253 and 251 kW and then falls a bit. Falls to around 190 kW at 33%, 175 kW at 36%. 139 kW at 45% seems very good. If I remember correctly, I'm usually at just north of 100 kW at 50% in my car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

139 kW at 45% seems very good. If I remember correctly, I'm usually at just north of 100 kW at 50% in my car.

2170C is around 145kW to 150kW at 50% SOC. It starts taper around 25-28% from 250kW, sometimes a bit higher. Just roughly. There is data around here showing these results (and the ideal curves).

V3 Supercharging Profiles for Model 3

So start of taper seems similar, but for that charge of the 2024 2170L at least, it fell off more quickly than 2018 2170C.

My recollection when charging is 50% is typically around 150kW. And start of taper between 25% and 30%. 2170C

So that is a good baseline. Both new packs are expected to be inferior to the advanced 2018 tech, but LG substantially more inferior.

 

[ForeverFree]

Hi, folks. Super valuable thread. Thanks to all!

Anyone have any idea why Tesla/Panasonic tech has regressed slightly (at least in terms of charging curve) since 2018? Certainly not what any of us would have expected back then.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Anyone have any idea why Tesla/Panasonic tech has regressed slightly (at least in terms of charging curve) since 2018? Certainly not what any of us would have expected back then.

Probably tradeoffs of density/chemistry/cost/ charging speed.

In engineering there are often tradeoffs but over time the overall envelope does tend to expand. A little bit disappointing that didn’t happen here over six years. And costs have come down but have generally come down less than anticipated at this point. Could go back and look at predictions.

But overall certainly progress has been very slow and disappointing. Which is unfortunate, since it just has to be 50%-100% or so better (leaving poorly defined) and really it wouldn’t need to be any better than that to totally take over for most applications.

 

[mborkow]

Hi, folks. Super valuable thread. Thanks to all!

Anyone have any idea why Tesla/Panasonic tech has regressed slightly (at least in terms of charging curve) since 2018? Certainly not what any of us would have expected back then.

To me it looks like JB Straubel was driving a lot of the innovation at Tesla. I don’t think they’ve been the same since he left. If you listen to Elon, this isn’t really an area of focus now either.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

To me it looks like JB Straubel was driving a lot of the innovation at Tesla. I don’t think they’ve been the same since he left. If you listen to Elon, this isn’t really an area of focus now either.

Why spend a few billion to advance technology and gain competitive advantage in a key element of your business when you can spend an order of magnitude or two more on overpriced hardware which may not be well suited to your core competencies and in any case addresses a highly competitive market with little chance of success?

 

[ForeverFree]

Agree.

Still love our Model 3s, though (2017 LR and 2018 P3D-). FSD transfer window and fed tax credit availability have me wondering whether this would be good replacement timing.

Hesitant, however, because of battery tech stagnation. We road trip regularly, often with bike rack, so range and charging curve do matter to us.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We road trip regularly, often with bike rack, so range and charging curve do matter to us.

I think the Panasonic 2170L at least in the Performance (assuming it is not borked in the AWD) will be good enough. It’s close to the same, enough that it makes little difference.

If you are ok with a bigger car, Model S LR is road trip king I believe. 18650 are hard to beat.

 

[sperkin]

Not right, no.

POS is an optional way to take the credit on a car that qualifies- not a required one.

You can still just tax the credit when you file your taxes is you (and the car) otherwise qualify.

So it's possible this will be available retroactively (to at least May 3rd or 4th buyers--- though IIRC when a similar thing of the IRS issuing final guidelines LAST year happened and it turned out the RWD qualified after all, it was retroactive to Jan 1 for all buyers).

Remains to be seen which retroactivity, if any, applies in this case though.

It is not retro active. Must be at POS. Also, now it’s public knowledge. I couldn’t say before.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Personal opinion, but I don’t think Sawyer knows anything other than what he reads on the forums and reddits himself. This thread, thanks to many involved, had the information before he did. A bit too ironic for me

 

[Jeremy3292]

I think the Panasonic 2170L at least in the Performance (assuming it is not borked in the AWD) will be good enough. It’s close to the same, enough that it makes little difference.

If you are ok with a bigger car, Model S LR is road trip king I believe. 18650 are hard to beat.

Nominal higher voltage pack also makes a difference

(wondering when we will see Tesla increase pack voltage across the board)

 

[Jeremy3292]

If you listen to Elon, this isn’t really an area of focus now either.

Agree 100%. Seems like they (Tesla) think the charging speeds are good enough currently, which they’re not for most “regular” people, if you want to transition the world to sustainable energy. Higher voltage packs would instantly increase charging speeds. On the flip side they also think bigger batteries are stupid and true 350-400 mile range EVs are unnecessary. The general public tends to disagree. People don’t want to stop and charge for 20-25 minutes every 250 miles (true highway range).

I digress.

 

[Knightshade]

Agree 100%. Seems like they (Tesla) think the charging speeds are good enough currently, which they’re not for most “regular” people, if you want to transition the world to sustainable energy. Higher voltage packs would instantly increase charging speeds. On the flip side they also think bigger batteries are stupid and true 350-400 mile range EVs are unnecessary. The general public tends to disagree. People don’t want to stop and charge for 20-25 minutes every 250 miles (true highway range).

I digress.

I agree it's a digression, but the average American drives around 40 miles a day.

250 miles real world is plenty for like 99% of driving days for "the general public"

And a 10-15 minute (not 25 minute) supercharger stop adds another 150-180 miles back on-- meaning you're talking ~400+ miles with a single stop comparable to a gas/bathroom/drink break in an ICE car at a gas station.

Or north of 550-600 miles with just two such brief stops in a single day.

Personally if I were going more than that in a day I'd just take an airplane.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I agree it's a digression, but the average American drives around 40 miles a day.

250 miles real world is plenty for like 99% of driving days for "the general public"

And a 10-15 minute (not 25 minute) supercharger stop adds another 150-180 miles back on-- meaning you're talking ~400+ miles with a single stop comparable to a gas/bathroom/drink break in an ICE car at a gas station.

Or north of 550-600 miles with just two such brief stops in a single day.

Personally if I were going more than that in a day I'd just take an airplane.

For sure it's not a problem for me or you. 99% of my driving is within 100 mile radius of my house. But we are early adopters. My wife hates stopping to charge and doesn't want to take it on trips. She drives a Lexus GX so we always take her car. For example, her parents lake house is 4.5 hours away (294 miles) which we go to a lot in the summer. She drives it without stopping and I can't make it there without stopping for a charge. It's annoyance for her, so I get it.

But that is kind of my point. Is charging and EV range currently "fine" the way it is? Sure. But there are a lot of people in the world who don't want to have to make sure chargers are on their route, as there are still plenty of places where there are no superchargers or L2 chargers available without a hassle. There's a lot of people who don't like stopping on trips when their gas car can make it no problem. EV's still have their limitations for mass adoption: charging speed and range are still the biggest ones, despite it being "fine" for most of us on here.

This is why my stance has been and will be for the foreseeable future that you have one EV and one gas car (or hybrid) in a family.

 

[Knightshade]

For sure it's not a problem for me or you. 99% of my driving is within 100 mile radius of my house. But we are early adopters.

Statistically, 99% of everyones personal vehicle driving is within 100 miles of their house.

Regardless of when they adopted what.

My wife hates stopping to charge and doesn't want to take it on trips. She drives a Lexus GX so we always take her car. For example, her parents lake house is 4.5 hours away (294 miles) which we go to a lot in the summer. She drives it without stopping and I can't make it there without stopping for a charge. It's annoyance for her, so I get it.

I guess... but I'd at least be stopping for a drink or to use a restroom on a 4-5 hour drive--- and I'd be able to add significantly more charge than I needed to finish the trip in the short time that takes without adding any time whatsoever to the trip.

For marathoners who pee in Gatorade bottles or just hold it, sure, that's 5 wasted minutes I guess.... but they're still doing bad math.

It's 5-10 minutes a handful of times a year.

Versus the 5-10 minutes every week the Lexus GX wastes stopping at local gas stations all year the EV never has to do because you just plug it in at home in 5 seconds and it's "full" every morning.



That's not to say there's NOBODY for whom an EV just objectively won't work as well... (the small minority who routinely tow significant distance for example--- or the minority of americans who don't have access to home or work charging).... but they're most definitely a statistical minority of buyers.