3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC

[Norseman]

Since the accident car was a "grey market import", one can assume the owner's manual was not published in Turkish, or translated.
If one also speculate that
the owner was not fluent in English, one could conclude the driver never read the manual and was clueless about the subtle differences between Collision Warning, Collision Avoidance, radar not locking onto a stationary car, etc, etc.
Instead the driver assumed, incorrectly, that autopilot meant exactly that.
An accident waiting to happen, and it did after 3 days..:scared:

Hopefully we can all learn from this: 1) The Tesla Model S is a high tech piece of machinery.
2) Read the F.... manual.

 

[green1]

If he were to assume it was like true auto pilot (as in like aircraft) he would assume it had no collision avoidance at all, and did not assist speed either.
I'm not sure why the word autopilot is so often confused by people meaning self driving. It doesn't mean that in planes, and it has never been claimed to mean that on cars either (not to mention that it hasn't even been released yet)

 

[Norseman]

. 'm not sure why the word autopilot is so often confused by people meaning self driving. It doesn't mean that in planes, and it has never been claimed to mean that on cars either (not to mention that it hasn't even been released yet)

Autopilot as per Tesla is a typical US marketing term: A bit misleading and a bit optimistic.
Like a "Health food store" : If you eat the food in the store you will be healthy.

As for the poor Tesla owner in Istanbul who crashed his Model S rear ending a stationary car, because he expected the car to "auto brake", using the "Autopilot": He obviously is not, and have never been an engineer or any kind of technical person as he would have known better than to let a dumb car look after his and his family's safety at high speed approaching danger.
Naive and ignorant comes to mind.
Like a 14 year old with a new toy.

 

[green1]

Autopilot as per Tesla is a typical US marketing term: A bit misleading and a bit optimistic.

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is misleading or optimistic. Autopilot in a plane doesn't replace a pilot, and auto pilot in a car doesn't replace a driver. If you compare it to aviation autopilot, it's actually claimed to do MORE than an aviation autopilot does (steering to follow curves in the road, adjusting speed to match vehicles it is following, neither of which an aviation autopilot is capable of) So I see nothing misleading or optimistic about the name.
If we look at the marketing speak around it, and not the name itself, we see the same thing, they state explicitly over and over again that this won't replace a driver, they say a driver must still pay attention. and most importantly, they say that it hasn't launched yet.

I don't have a clue where people get this idea that it is more than a slightly more advanced cruise control. It's not from anything Tesla has said, and it's not from what the name implies, so where is it from?

 

[Norseman]

I'm sorry, I don't see how it is misleading or optimistic.

Maybe you don't, but somebody in Istantbul thinks it is :scared:

 

[green1]

Maybe you don't, but somebody in Istantbul thinks it is :scared:

They could have called it "fred" and the person likely would have had the same collision. Don't blame the name of the system for being misleading unless you can back that up with something other than the fact that people ignore the name and all the instructions.

 

[dsm363]

Some people obviously don't know what autopilot on a plane does so 'auto' means 'automatic' to them so car should do everything. That's why reading the manual or asking is helpful.

 

[Norseman]

Some people obviously don't know what autopilot on a plane does so 'auto' means 'automatic' to them so car should do everything. That's why reading the manual or asking is helpful..

Bingo.

.
Don't blame the name of the system for being misleading unless you can back that up with something other than the fact that people ignore the name and all the instructions.

Just looking at the results: In this case somebody in Turkey thought Autopilot means the thing will stop behind a parked car.
Guess he was wrong.
If the system was called Fred, or Cruise Control, the results could have been a bit different. (Strictly speculation on my side)

 

[green1]

(Strictly speculation on my side)

And that's the point. Everyone speculates that the name autopilot is being interpreted as "nothing at all like autopilot" and then blaming Tesla for calling it such. How do we know that naming something in this manner had any impact at all on the situation, and more so, how should Tesla have known ahead of time that people would be so incredibly stupid as to assume that?

My speculation is that the name has absolutely nothing at all to do with it, and that stupid people will do stupid things regardless of what you name something. That all of these sorts of collisions (not accidents!) are based on wishful thinking of what driver assistance features are, and would have happened equally regardless of the name. Further, I speculate that there is nothing Tesla could possibly have done to avoid people doing said stupid things short of refusing to introduce advances in technology at all.

 

[Johan]

Guys I didn't revive this thread to start the quibble again. We've been over that. The conclusion is RTFM.

The reason I posted was I was hoping to get feedback from Emir, the original poster, on how this was being handled by Tesla. It will be telling to know how they approached this since it was the first accident I've heard of attributed to shall we call it "driver assistance features" in a Tesla.

Allow me to speculate: Tesla and the Turkish owner have a confidentiality/NDA agreement.

 

[Canuck]

... and more so, how should Tesla have known ahead of time that people would be so incredibly stupid as to assume that?

That's quite the statement. I know noting about aviation terms but at the same time I don't consider myself "incredibly stupid". If someone asked for my definition of "auto pilot" (before being corrected here) I would have said it means:

automatic - (of a device or process) working by itself with little or no direct human control.
pilot - a person who operates the flying controls of an aircraft.

So, to me, 'auto pilot' means a plane that flies by itself with little or no direct human control. I think the vast majority of educated people would say this. Now, people on this forum have corrected me, and told me that is "autonomous pilot" but we can also shorten that phrase to "auto pilot" so the confusion still arises.

In my opinion, it is a very poor choice of words by Tesla. However, that is no excuse for not learning the limitations of the system.

 

[Norseman]

. In my opinion, it is a very poor choice of words by Tesla. However, that is no excuse for not learning the limitations of the system.

My point exactly.
Been saying the same over and over again but somebody always have to argue with common sense.
Nuff said.

- - - Updated - - -

. since it was the first accident I've heard of attributed to shall we call it "driver assistance features" in a Tesla.

it won't be the last.
Tesla is sticking it's neck out selling stuff that people don't understand.
Perhaps an IQ test should be required for buying a sophisticated car.
Perhaps not, discrimination and all.
Just dumb it down with a sh!t load of warnings in the Operator's Manual.
Ooops, manual not translated to every language in the world.
Grey Import, no local language warnings:
Tesla Model S slams into stationary car because Tesla driver thought Autopilot meant exactly that: Autopilot, Auto everything.
Guess he was wrong.
Poor guy.

 

[S100D]

The driver is 100% responsible for driving the car regardless if the Autopilot was engaged or now. I got my S85D on June 2, 2015. I was showing my wife how the Autopilot worked and it was following many different cars and came to a complete stop at stop lights many times. During the last demonstration I was following a car when the stop light turned red. The car if front of me started slowing down and then some idiot quickly changed lanes between me and the car in front. The collision warning came on and the car hit the brakes. I decided to over-ride the Autopilot and hit the brakes hard to keep from rear-ending the car that changed lanes. Fortunately for me I did not hit the car. I don't know if the car would have stopped soon enough or not.

Tesla owners should not expect the Model S to be fool-proof. I now mainly use the Radar Cruise for highway driving and do all of the driving when in heavy traffic.

 

[cryptyk]

 

[alexrov]

Not sure how this thread devolved into a discussion on the definition of "autopilot", but regardless of what the feature is called, this is 100% the driver's fault. Not even 99.9% -- 100%.

 

[Lerxt]

It is ridiculous that anyone could think that Autopilot does NOT mean you are still in control and responsible. The law or common sense didn't suddenly change when Tesla started using the name for the feature. Automation makes the physical task easier, freeing up brain capacity to monitor and influence the situation. Totally agree - 100% the drivers fault.

 

[ATC@LWSK]

I wish we could get an update from emir-t how was this situation resolved.

Thanks Emir,

 

[Johan]

I wish we could get an update from emir-t how was this situation resolved.

Thanks Emir,

+1.

 

[neroden]

Let me just point out that this is why "self-driving cars" are a fantasy which will not happen.

TACC is no substitute for using the brakes yourself. You are not supposed to rely on TACC.

 

[Alexander]

You shouldn't have to sue anyone. Just let the insurance company work that out. I got into a similar accident back in 2013 and the insurance company did all the talking and negotiations for me. Because ultimately it's the insurance company that has to pay for it. If they feel that they shouldn't, then they'll do the suing. But I doubt that they'll do it.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. The first two weeks of ownership was almost magical. I would wake up in the middle of the night just to go down to the garage and look at it. So I can relate to how you feel.

But I would let the insurance company sort it out.