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JimmyAZ
Member
Are you trolling? TACC works great, AND I use it almost every time I drive. Sure it has limitations, but that's why I'm using it. To learn what they are so I recognize an issue before it becomes a problem. Your statement is laughable.
JimmyAZ
Member
On another thread a guy spoke with someone at Tesla. He stated they're using a MBZ S-class as the benchmark to beat. That car apparently does it quite well. The new 7-series BMW should also perform well. Sure, they're all $100k+ cars, but that tech always flows downhill to the masses in time. It's a sign of things to come. A blanket statement like neroden's reminds me of an ostrich with his head in the sand. "Because it's going to be difficult, let's pack up, go home, and just forget about it."
Im so glad Elon doesn't share that sentiment.
ATC@LWSK
Member
We never got any closure on this thread, I hope emir-t will share with us some information on the outcome. I am sure many of us are (I know I am) eager to know what/if TM did anything to address it?
As a fellow Turk, I'm sad to hear this story. I just saw it. Havent really went through all the posts.
Tesla, will start operating in Turkey in 2016. Currently 9 superchargers are planned mosly in the western part of the country. They should be operational in 2016, and I believe Tesla in Münich, Germany at the moment will be the ones in charge for the time being.
Though paper work, and legal work in Turkey takes more time then usual.
As for the family and for all the ones involved in this particular incident, thank god they are all ok. rest is nothing compared.
Though I must say, the driver of the Tesla in this case is utterly in fault from A to Z. You are carrying a child, and a pregnant wife, be more carefull! you should never let the Auto Pilot take full control, always have your foot on the brake and watch your surroundings.
Traffic and drivers and road infrastructure in my country is not upto western standards, pretty good compared to asia but nowhere close to western countries. especially the drivers! they think they are king of the road and do such actions, you would be in shock. So its very important to have full focus on the road and surroundings. I too did hit a car from behind, I knew it was my fault, but I never threatened the car company to sue them. If you hit from behind, you know you are in the wrong, no excuses.
Most important lesson I think from this, traffic is no playground, always have full focus and attetion on the road as a driver. no exceptions no matter where you live.
I think the car would be taken to Münich and get repaired and shipped back to Turkey. and probably all the costs have to be taken by the owner.
Tesla, will start operating in Turkey in 2016. Currently 9 superchargers are planned mosly in the western part of the country. They should be operational in 2016, and I believe Tesla in Münich, Germany at the moment will be the ones in charge for the time being.
Though paper work, and legal work in Turkey takes more time then usual.
As for the family and for all the ones involved in this particular incident, thank god they are all ok. rest is nothing compared.
Though I must say, the driver of the Tesla in this case is utterly in fault from A to Z. You are carrying a child, and a pregnant wife, be more carefull! you should never let the Auto Pilot take full control, always have your foot on the brake and watch your surroundings.
Traffic and drivers and road infrastructure in my country is not upto western standards, pretty good compared to asia but nowhere close to western countries. especially the drivers! they think they are king of the road and do such actions, you would be in shock. So its very important to have full focus on the road and surroundings. I too did hit a car from behind, I knew it was my fault, but I never threatened the car company to sue them. If you hit from behind, you know you are in the wrong, no excuses.
Most important lesson I think from this, traffic is no playground, always have full focus and attetion on the road as a driver. no exceptions no matter where you live.
I think the car would be taken to Münich and get repaired and shipped back to Turkey. and probably all the costs have to be taken by the owner.
MTOman
Member
Glad nobody was hurt but still sucks about your car 
I have an earlier VIN without any sensors (except for parking) so I'm not familiar with all the features the new cars have, but doesn't Tesla have something like Suburu Eyesight by now where it stops you automatically if there's a car stopped in front of you? If not, why not? If Suburu can offer it on a car that costs just under $25k, why can't Tesla offer it on a car that costs $100k more? It seems like something any six figure car should come with, especially one that bills itself as being technologically advanced.
While I agree it's always the drivers responsibility, I can clearly understand why the OP thought his expensive new MS would have this ability.
I have an earlier VIN without any sensors (except for parking) so I'm not familiar with all the features the new cars have, but doesn't Tesla have something like Suburu Eyesight by now where it stops you automatically if there's a car stopped in front of you? If not, why not? If Suburu can offer it on a car that costs just under $25k, why can't Tesla offer it on a car that costs $100k more? It seems like something any six figure car should come with, especially one that bills itself as being technologically advanced.
While I agree it's always the drivers responsibility, I can clearly understand why the OP thought his expensive new MS would have this ability.
MTOman
Member
Agreed, nothing is foolproof which is why I agree it's always the drivers responsibility. I didn't realize the MS had this feature, though if the OPs experience with it is an example of how well it works you're probably better off without it. It will be interesting to see if the autopilot performs equally "well".
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
The OP's car behaved exactly as it was designed to behave. The OP did not understand how to properly use the technology. That's what caused the unfortunate incident.
MTOman
Member
According to the Wiki page, "An advanced emergency braking system (AEBS) or autonomous emergency braking (AEB)[1] is an autonomous road vehicle safety system which employs sensors to monitor the proximity of vehicles in front and detects situations where the relative speed and distance between the host and target vehicles suggest that a collision is imminent. In such a situation, emergency braking can be automatically applied to avoid the collision or at least to mitigate its effects."
You're saying by crashing into the car in front of him his AEBS was behaving exactly how it's designed to behave? That's not how I understand the description of AEBS. Or are you confusing TACC with AEBS? I know the new MS have TACC but I didn't think they had AEBS, like Suburu does, until Stoneymonster corrected me. I'm not impressed if his AEBS failed to detect the stopped car in front of him since its whole purpose is "to monitor the proximity of vehicles in front and detects situations where the relative speed and distance between the host and target vehicles suggest that a collision is imminent"
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
MTOman
Member
I'm not ignoring that part, it simply doesn't fit with the OPs description of the events: " the car decided not to recognise the car in front of me slowing down and stopping because of a red light but instead decided to accelerate"
It doesn't sound like AEBS did anything to mitigate the effects by accelerating, unless your physics are different than mine
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
There are two things being mixed up here: TACC and AEBS. The behavior described matches with TACC. We do not know if AEBS was doing something improper because the OP decided to brake himself. He may have done so before the AEBS activated.I'm not ignoring that part, it simply doesn't fit with the OPs description of the events: " the car decided not to recognise the car in front of me slowing down and stopping because of a red light but instead decided to accelerate"
It doesn't sound like AEBS did anything to mitigate the effects by accelerating, unless your physics are different than mine
Ding! Not to mention AEBS has quite obviously been tweaked over the ensuing months. I've had the collision warning (pre-AEBS) go off much more often.
According to the Wiki page, "An advanced emergency braking system (AEBS) or autonomous emergency braking (AEB)[1] is an autonomous road vehicle safety system which employs sensors to monitor the proximity of vehicles in front and detects situations where the relative speed and distance between the host and target vehicles suggest that a collision is imminent. In such a situation, emergency braking can be automatically applied to avoid the collision or at least to mitigate its effects."
You're saying by crashing into the car in front of him his AEBS was behaving exactly how it's designed to behave? That's not how I understand the description of AEBS. Or are you confusing TACC with AEBS? I know the new MS have TACC but I didn't think they had AEBS, like Suburu does, until Stoneymonster corrected me. I'm not impressed if his AEBS failed to detect the stopped car in front of him since its whole purpose is "to monitor the proximity of vehicles in front and detects situations where the relative speed and distance between the host and target vehicles suggest that a collision is imminent"
Why are you reading wikipedia's page on general advanced emergency braking? Why not look at what Tesla implemented?
Tesla never said they'll avoid the accident, only reduce the impact by dropping your speed by 20mph. And I believe the OP said the car started braking before he hit the car in front of him (and he wasn't sure if it was him or the car), so it performed exactly as designed.
EDITED:
Sorry remembered wrong, it's 25mph decrease and AEB does not work when the driver hits the brakes, which the OP did:
3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC - Page 11
So everything worked as designed, assuming that the car was even working before he got into an accident - 3 day old import P85D crashed while using TACC - Page 10
Last edited:
MTOman
Member
I started this convo by linking to Suburu's page where they demonstrate their technology which brings your car to a full stop before it hits the car in front of it. I asked why this exists on a $25k car but not a $100+k Tesla. I was informed it does exist on the Tesla and that's where the confusion apparently began because I assumed it was the same type of AEBS as the Suburu offers which avoids the accident completely.
So, Tesla's AEBS isn't designed to avoid the accident like the Suburu AEBS which again leads me to ask: why not? Don't we all agree avoiding a crash is better than mitigating the effects of one? And how can we expect average consumers to understand that Tesla's AEBS doesn't avoid wrecks like they've seen other cars do on TV when it's taken us this many messages in a Tesla fanboy forum to understand how it's different? I can totally understand how the OP, and others who might purchase a Tesla, might mistakenly think it will have the wreck-avoiding technology that other companies have.
I agree it's the OPs fault as driver is ultimately in charge and I now see that everything was working exactly as Tesla designed it to, but I can also see how the average consumer (who doesn't spend hours everyday reading Tesla forums) might expect it to have the same wreck-avoiding technology as they've seen other companies offer on less expensive cars.
Tesla doesn't claim it's system can bring you to a full stop. If you read back around the same place I linked, there are several accounts that Tesla will actually bring you to a full stop. It could be a CYA statement from them.
No need to be a Tesla fanboy, but the person can just RT*M. It's clearly stated there.
The OPs car might have done it too, if the car was functioning properly, who knows?
By reading the manual?
Most people don't just willy nilly drop 100k on a car without knowing approximately what it can and cannot do.
Subaru's wording is nearly identical to Tesla's, both in the disclaimer and in the feature description "Pre-Collision Braking helps you avoid or reduce frontal impacts by alerting you and applying full braking force in emergency situations."
I would not expect Subaru's implementation to work in all situations either, and I expect the OPs problem was due to applying the brakes themselves. It would be interesting to see Tesla reproduce the brick wall test in the video. I expect (but don't depend on!) it would pass.
Also: suggesting we'd be better off without a safety feature is kind of silly. That's like the old arguments about seatbelts and being safely thrown from a vehicle.
I would not expect Subaru's implementation to work in all situations either, and I expect the OPs problem was due to applying the brakes themselves. It would be interesting to see Tesla reproduce the brick wall test in the video. I expect (but don't depend on!) it would pass.
Also: suggesting we'd be better off without a safety feature is kind of silly. That's like the old arguments about seatbelts and being safely thrown from a vehicle.
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