.48 feels like AP2 finally passed AP1

[Yinn]

You see the opposite as well: people who never had an AP1 car comparing AP2 with AP1 and complaining. I wonder how they do that. (note that I have no opinion on the subject as I never drove an AP2 car)

Or people without a Tesla proclaiming facts based on test drives. Those are always fun.

I had a coworker preach to me about how my AP1 X was inferior. FSD was amazing on his test drive, clearly superior to AP1 and he NEEDED and only would buy an AP2 because of it. At the time, I also had an AP2 S and knew for a fact that EAP features weren't even deployed yet on the 2.0 much less FSD.

 

[Electroman]

So basically the notion that AP2 has reached or surpassed AP1 relies on:

a) Forgetting that:

- AP2 does not have speed sign recognition, AP1 does
- AP2 does not have non-freeway lane changing, AP1 does
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, AP1 does
- AP2 does not have multi-lane vehicle ID display when not changing lanes, AP1 does
- AP2 does not have multi-lane vehicle ID display on non-freeways at all, AP1 does
- AP2 does not have auto-wipers (feature relegated to AP2 in AP2 cars), AP1 cars do

.

can we add a few more?:

- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, where there is no passenger in the front seat
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, where there is passenger in the front seat
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, in day time
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, during night time
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, when a man is driving
- AP2 does not have multi-type vehicle ID display, when a woman is driving

You can't refute that in all of these scenarios AP1 does have multi-type vehicle ID display.

Oh my, the list is now a dozen long. I betcha if you dig deeper you can get a few more.

 

[Electroman]

Still like it! WIP for sure but thats no news....

From that video, i am not sure what is WIP? I see no difference between AP1 just on the drive you did on that video.

- Also I don't like that you need to change the AP speed on the touch screen. Doing it on the stack was really easy and nice in S & X
- from the video it is not clear if the lane lines turn blue on the display
- that weird cracking sound.. what is that?

 

[josher32]

AP2 also doesn’t yet do lane changes on non-freeway 2 lane highways which is something I confirmed was in place in my AP1 loaner vehicle.

Also AP1 seemed way more confident and not guessing as much as my AP2 v .48 car.

 

[Carl]

He's far too modest since he didn't paste a link, so I'll do it! @BLKTSLA does great videos that strike the balance of informative and entertaining....

That video's great but it would be even greater if it specifically concentrated on lane keeping: find a couple of places where AP1 (or AP2) always makes mistakes (or disengages) and do an A/B test there. Preferably both cars on same software update (AP1 got better the last six months as well, imo). Is anyone with both AP1 and AP2 cars and a GoPro tempted to offer us this Xmas present?

 

[I.a.n]

Not having had AP1 except as a loaner and not thinking to try this out, I have a question...

Does AP1 slow down before a speed reduction sign such that it goes past the sign at the lower speed?

My AP2 doesn't start to reduce speed (where the data is correct) until the speed on the dash drops, which is usually quite close to the sign (and the same place in both directions). Many reductions in limit are followed by a speed camera where I live, so this would result in a ticket/loss of licence. At the moment I always have to manually adjust the speed some distance before the sign, which of course prevents it speeding up at the end of the speed reduction. As such the AP2 speed awareness, even when the data is correct, is fairly useless for me.

 

[Carl]

AP1 starts reducing speed only at the moment (split second) it passes the sign. So you still could be "speeding" for the next 50 meters or so. Over here speed cameras wouldn't be placed directly behind a speed reduction sign so I never had issues with that.

 

[TaoJones]

Not having had AP1 except as a loaner and not thinking to try this out, I have a question...

Does AP1 slow down before a speed reduction sign such that it goes past the sign at the lower speed?

My AP2 doesn't start to reduce speed (where the data is correct) until the speed on the dash drops, which is usually quite close to the sign (and the same place in both directions). Many reductions in limit are followed by a speed camera where I live, so this would result in a ticket/loss of licence. At the moment I always have to manually adjust the speed some distance before the sign, which of course prevents it speeding up at the end of the speed reduction. As such the AP2 speed awareness, even when the data is correct, is fairly useless for me.

Best example I can think of with AP1: coming into West Yellowstone (Montana/Wyoming border) the speed limit drops gradually from 75mph to 25mph. At each sign, with TACC & AS engaged, the car slowed (to speed limit plus offset). Just past 1-2 of those signs each morning, there was a cop with radar - monitoring traffic for the public good and revenue generation. AP1 worked flawlessly to prevent involuntary donations.

That said, the adjustments were made starting right when the sign was approached and passed.

That’s the biggest problem with AP2 speed limit failures and the errors in the database and non-recognition. Somebody’s going to get a ticket or worse, and the fallout won’t be pretty.

 

[I.a.n]

Thanks - sounds like AP1 and AP2 are fairly much on a par at least with that point. I'd wondered, if when AP1 recognised a sign in the distance, it might start slowing down for it.

But equally, AP2 logically should be able to predict reaching a lower speed at some distance further down this section of road and slow down accordingly.

With the cold weather causing limited regen, the slowing down appears to be much more gradual and thus you would be speeding for that bit longer. To top it off, some counties are trialling a zero-tolerance to speeding, so even if the camera is some distance after the sign you could be making that involuntary donation (which is now income based in the UK - and can be up to nearly 1/2 a months pay).

 

[jimmy_d]

AP2 also doesn’t yet do lane changes on non-freeway 2 lane highways which is something I confirmed was in place in my AP1 loaner vehicle.

Also AP1 seemed way more confident and not guessing as much as my AP2 v .48 car.

That lane change issue must be situation dependent. I've done hundreds of lane changes on non-freeway 2 lane highways. As of .42 I found AP2 to be comparable / superior to AP1 on the same highway.

 

[I.a.n]

That lane change issue must be situation dependent.

Could the lane change availability be part of the information downloaded from the map tiles (from https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/2457682/)? If not one of the flags, then based on the width of the road?

Which roads I can auto-lane-change on has changed over time without software updates. Originally this was limited to Motorways in the UK, but without a formal software update, it became possible on some multi-lane major roads.

 

[croman]

That lane change issue must be situation dependent. I've done hundreds of lane changes on non-freeway 2 lane highways. As of .42 I found AP2 to be comparable / superior to AP1 on the same highway.

I can't speak to how AP2 operates now but it was a distinct program of AS that operated before 17.17.4. AS on AP2 in non-geofenced areas was vastly different. Now it seems to be very similar but certain sub-programs remain deactivated (like ALC outside of what TomTom's database has for roads classified as divided highways).

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

Do you really have to shake the steering wheel for the system to register that you`re still alive? No touch/squeeze sensors? And what about the interior camera?

No. Just a very small amount of resistance to the steering wheel, clears the nag.

 

[chillaban]

No. Just a very small amount of resistance to the steering wheel, clears the nag.

Indeed, that's the key. Just mild, steady torque, slightly opposing the steering force (e.g. tug on the wheel) will clear the nag and register that your hands are on the wheel.

Angry violent shaking of the wheel, squeezing it, etc all either don't work or get ignored. The most effective way of clearing the nag is to tug on the wheel gently in one direction or the other, with steady but weak pressure.

 

[croman]

Indeed, that's the key. Just mild, steady torque, slightly opposing the steering force (e.g. tug on the wheel) will clear the nag and register that your hands are on the wheel.

Angry violent shaking of the wheel, squeezing it, etc all either don't work or get ignored. The most effective way of clearing the nag is to tug on the wheel gently in one direction or the other, with steady but weak pressure.

With each firmware update the amount of "tension" in the wheel changes and therefore the amount of torque or force needed to get it to register slightly changes. It is kind of frustrating because some revisions allow you to "nudge" AS on turns and others will disconnect at the slightest push.

I've never figured out why that varies or what the variations mean other than when AS thinks its right, it holds on tight and when it knows things are squishy it allows some help. Maybe I'm just anthropomorphizing it.

 

[morrisdl]

Resting your hand palm down on the inside bottom of the wheel is sufficient. It is comfortable for me for long stretches and prevents any nagging from the car or the wife.

 

[Joe F]

I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why it's important to have vehicle differentiation on the IC.

Is this just argument for the sake of arguing? Or is there some other motivation behind all those who continue to point out the difference? Even those who never owned an AP1 Tesla seem keen on pointing out this, IMHO, non critical difference. It's different H/W and S/W. Get over it. Perhaps trust your own eyes to decide what is ahead of you.

 

[chillaban]

I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why it's important to have vehicle differentiation on the IC.

Is this just argument for the sake of arguing? Or is there some other motivation behind all those who continue to point out the difference? Even those who never owned an AP1 Tesla seem keen on pointing out this, IMHO, non critical difference. It's different H/W and S/W. Get over it. Perhaps trust your own eyes to decide what is ahead of you.

I dunno. I mean, wipers are one thing, but like you, I've literally seen ZERO times where AP1 did anything with the information it was displaying about non-white cars. Vehicle ID of a truck did not improve the distance that it'd keep away from them, or cause it to avoid entering a curve right beside them, etc etc etc. The information there was cool to look at for eye candy but it did not appear to have any functional value.

From a driving functionality point of view, after 900 miles on 2017.48 I am pretty confident in my assessment that at least for the SF to Vegas route, AP2 and AP1 are performing at more or less parity.

And I say "more or less" only because there's about an equal number of situations that AP2 got right that AP1 did not, and also vice versa.

 

[thecure]

I think it would be great if they got autopilot to avoid driving in adjacent vehicle's blind spots. Is that coming some day?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I've yet to hear a cogent argument as to why it's important to have vehicle differentiation on the IC.

Is this just argument for the sake of arguing? Or is there some other motivation behind all those who continue to point out the difference? Even those who never owned an AP1 Tesla seem keen on pointing out this, IMHO, non critical difference. It's different H/W and S/W. Get over it. Perhaps trust your own eyes to decide what is ahead of you.

It is a quest for facts and accuracy. As well as a visual representation of the identification abilities of the products.

If we're going to say AP2 has AP1 parity or exceeds it, we better get the facts right.

Others can decide how much they value each of those differences.