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70D Seems Like Most Efficient Buy For $

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by travwill, Jul 5, 2015.

  1. travwill

    travwill Member

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    For those that are in average environments, are satisfied with the performance on a regular basis, and drive around typical cities/lower speed highways (70 and less) with typical traffic, it seems like the 70D is a big bang for the buck. Overall it has higher range or similar range (within a few or max 15 miles) than other models for the above scenarios due to its power & weight efficiencies, saving around $5000 or $10000 at purchase.

    Just a data point for those considering it having looked at Tesla's range estimator online...

    70DEfficient.jpeg
     
  2. kuttakamina

    kuttakamina Member

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    70D is,
    - 10K cheaper
    - More efficient
    - Cheaper to insure

    .. and 99.99% of the time, it's the same car as 85D or P85D.
    IMO the best purchase option right now. Tesla has it mispriced, they could easily charge 5K more for 70D.
     
  3. !S4

    !S4 Member

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    You both echoed my justifications for sticking with the 70D. However if money was no object I'd love a P85D...someday.

    Travwill, how are you finding the range and performance around Chicago? You're charging at home with a single charger, right?
     
  4. travwill

    travwill Member

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    !S4 - Performance is great, more than ever really need in Chicago. Taken some trips out to far burbs a few times and it is always more than enough on highway as well to pass aggressively, etc. My actual daily commute is about 8 miles each way, so 20 miles on a normal not drive very much day for me is all ;-) during weekdays. The funny thing is I usually just charge up to 70% during the week, still way more than enough of course. Been out to a supercharger once in Countryside, up to Skokie mall (just regular 40 amps there in Tesla spots), and few other free chargers. Let it charge up to 90% then. For example yesterday was up in Skokie and charged up to 90%, drove home, and drove a little today and it is still down there with 80% or so left, will drive tomorrow for free again most likely, then suck some home power on Tue at earliest. I signed up for ComEd Real Time Pricing and get a new meter soon to switch to that - which is great as just .01 to .06 max usually when I charge, and goes negative in early mornings often which I'll target scheduled charging for in future to reduce electric bill even ;-) Not a need, but kinda cool to do.

    Single charger (40 amps) adding the usually about 30 miles per hour is more than enough for me always. Supercharging was pretty awesome a few days ago.
     
  5. jdw

    jdw Member

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    Temperature & heater/AC seem to play quite a role in the range of the different models ... a 60 mile range difference at 0 with heat on vs a 4 mile range difference at 90 with AC on.

    55MPH.png
     
  6. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Which is why, imho, every model s should come standard with seat warmers for all seats. Last winter we even used an electric blanket for the kids.
     
  7. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 918 Hybrid

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    #7 FlatSix911, Jul 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
    Great information on range ... glad I got a 70D!
     
  8. vdiv

    vdiv Chief Grump

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    Yup, sub zero package is a must-have. Auto-pilot, not so much.
     
  9. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    What's wrong with Auto-Pilot? TACC is pretty damn good, used it 90% of driving on my last 2 road trips. The auto-high beams come in handy on back roads too. Can't wait for auto-steering (lol, with Tesla time, I'm guessing mid-2016).
     
  10. No2DinosaurFuel

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    So in fair weather, the 70d is pretty much close to the other cars. In cold weather the other cars are better. IMO if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather then the 70D is the best. However if you ever make those winter trips, i would pay a bit More and get the 85D. Different needs need different solution. Nothing new here.
     
  11. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Member

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    Is that zero degrees Fahrenheit? That's pretty damn cold. Still 214 miles at 55mph is pretty decent range with 3.5 hours of driving more than I typically want to do anyway with out a break. I have driven my 60 on many sub-freezing winter road trips and the use of cabin heat in extreme cold temps can definitely impact range in a big way. Winter travel requires more range buffer and sometimes more willingness to tolerate lower cabin temps to stretch range (seat heaters definitely help too). Fortunately the supercharger build-out has provided better options for more frequent stops if needed.
     
  12. kuttakamina

    kuttakamina Member

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    #12 kuttakamina, Jul 6, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
    I remember you arguing for hours with loads of math that the 70D will have 50 miles lesser range than 85D. :) .. so don't say "Nothing new here".

    The worst case range difference between 70D and 85D is 49 miles - at 0F with heat blowing with a 100% charge with absolute ideal driving conditions. You have better chances of finding a bikini model who does quantum math for fun. Unless there were superchargers every 25 miles, a 49 range difference isn't going to matter.

    As far as "..if you can guarantee yourself never to drive in cold harsh weather.." .. as far as the east coast,

    1. Speed limits here are mostly 55mph. At 55mph, 70D's range is pretty much the same as 85D.
    2. You don't take very long drives in the middle of winter here for 2 reasons,
    - Roads may not be ploughed
    - Roads may have huge potholes
    - Large trucks own that road in winters, and they don't care about your puny Tesla in the middle of nowhere.

    And it rains or snows here every damn week! Long story short, even in an ICE, long distance driving in winter isn't very practical on the east coast. Not saying nobody does it or there are days that you can't do it. But mostly long distance travel in snow is a better choice in summers anyway. You could say that doesn't apply to the DC/NY/Boston corridor, but that is spotted with superchargers anyway, so its a non issue.

    As far as in-town driving, in the worst possible conditions, 70D still gives you lets say 150 range. That is far more than enough for all practical purposes.

    70D is a pretty damn good purchase for the value concious. Tesla could easily raise 70D by 5K.
     
  13. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    You know how you bash the "Tesla Fanboys"? What are you doing here now, being a 70D fanboy?

    While No2DinousaurFuel may have been wrong about the 50 mile range delta while he was dissecting the EPA numbers (yes, you can find cases where it's 50miles, but typically it's less), you're doing the exact opposite here.

    1. Speed limits here are NOT 55mph, speed limits on 95 outside city limits are 65mph
    2. I drive during the winter all the time
    -Roads are plowed here as soon as snow hits, come-on.
    -Roads STILL have huge potholes and it's summer!
    -Huh?


    While I love my 70D, I know that all EVs will struggle in the winter. So far I've taken 2 roadtrips in the 70D (DC->NY->DC, 500 miles roundtrip) and (DC->MA->DC 1,000 miles roundtrip), and had 0 range anxiety. Due to the nice weather, we probably averaged 70mph, and at some points (when I knew I'd make it to the next charger) hit 80mph.

    In 6 months, I'll let you know how it's doing in the winter on these same trips. I bet I'll be able to make them (0F? seriously? that's what we're comparing here? At least do 32F to be reasonable), just have to charge for an extra 10mins... And if that doesn't work, *gasp* we'll take an ICE. (Speaking of charging, the only time the charging times seemed to take longer is when I was paired with someone...)
     
  14. kuttakamina

    kuttakamina Member

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    Max*, dude! Major roads get ploughed in winter (i.e. I-95). But try driving anywhere slightly out of the ordinary, roads don't get ploughed for a couple of DAYS!
    Also, potholes in winters are big enough to swallow your Tesla LOL. Okay you can't argue that road conditions are MUCH worse in winters.

    As far as speed limits, when you drive from here to NY, 50% of the road is 55.
    But when you drive from SF to LA, 90% of the stretch is 75mph (and everyone does 90-100).

    Agree about the 32F though.

    Anyway, my whole point was .. "While No2DinousaurFuel may have been wrong about the 50 mile range delta" .. kuttakamina rests his case :) .. that was my whole point, 70D is maybe 30 mile less range than 85D for MOST practical purposes, not 50.

    Sincerely,
    70D Fanboy
     
  15. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Maybe it's a MD vs. VA thing, here even our cul-de-sac is plowed the same day (worst case: next day).

    "As far as speed limits, when you drive from here to NY, 50% of the road is 55."
    That was the first trip I took in Blue. ALL of the turnpike is 65, and that's about 1/2 the trip, lol. MD is mostly 65. VA is 55. I don't remember about DE, I think it's 65, but I could be wrong on this one. SI/Brooklyn is 50.


    And lol.
     
  16. kuttakamina

    kuttakamina Member

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    MD vs VA, ploughing, depends where you are.
    Potomac vs Great Falls - Potomac is far better when it comes to ploughing (and utility companies fixing downed powerlines).
    In Great Falls unless you are closer in you NEED a generator and a 4 wheel drive.
     
  17. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    I agree that the 70D is a great value. The value in the 85D is if you keep the car for 15-20 years, after battery degradation, you will still have a 70D or better for kWh storage. A 20 year old 70D will likely be a 58D or so.
     
  18. kuttakamina

    kuttakamina Member

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    Yes but in 20 years President Chelsea Clinton would have banned luxurious cars anyway.
     
  19. travwill

    travwill Member

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    (cringed at this joke!)

    Well, good debate overall so to end the thread maybe, guess we all agree 70D is a great bang for the buck, but in Winter they are all hit pretty hard, 70D included. Definitely a light on the reduced range we'll expect in the Winter. Honestly I love Spring/Summer/Fall (what we have in Chicago at least) but will be looking forward to Winter more this year since being able to precondition, have the toasty seats/steering ready (sure hope they add that to the app before then), and it'll be interesting to see the range go down faster even in the city. But still, won't have any range concerns, but will probably charge up to 90% daily instead of 70% currently.

    But in the warmer months, it is cool to see the efficiency of the 70 allows it to match or come close to the range of the 85s. Kinda cool.

    I kinda do hope, if possible, that they add a "sport" or performance mode to the 70D which allows it (if possible again) to output similar voltage and power like the 85D - even at a range loss by choice. Would be cool future feature, not that we really need it.

    -T
     
  20. No2DinosaurFuel

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    well my numbers up to 50 miles is probably base on no ideal condition for the 70D. Heating, AC, bad weather, etc. It was like 30-40 miles difference on average if I remember correctly assuming 70mph-75mph driving speed. So I still stand by my numbers. 55mph is really unrealistic here in CA. Very few roads are 55mph and even when they are posting 55mph, most cars will be going 65mph+.

    Now to answer those who will ask, if you are in drought ridden CA, then you don't have to worry about cold weather. Well to you, I would say, what about the trips to the mountains? The climb will definitely sap your range and the cold weather in the mountains during winter (when I would go for skiing or snow-boarding) doesn't make things any better. So while I can probably get away with a lot of things on the 70D, I will be severely limited when it matters. Also keep in mind, this is not your $30K car where I can realistically trade one in for a new one a fews down the road. This is a $80K+ car (with some of the options) which I don't see myself trading up for quite some time. Getting a compromised car will mean I will always be looking for a way to make the trade up financially sound. With the 85D, I am sure I will not have that problem... not for a long time even if Tesla release a 105D or higher.
     

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