70D vs. 90D Speed Regrets?

[Skotty]

Might help if you compare it to other cars. What kind of performance did you desire in your ICE days? Really shouldn't be any different with the Tesla. The 85D is comparable to the P85, which is comparable to a newer V8 Mustang GT or Camaro SS. However, if you think the Toyota Camry is sufficient performance, then a RWD 70 is already higher performance than that. Those are just some examples, as I have no idea what kind of cars you are familiar with.

 

[3mp_kwh]

85/90 are the hottest selling Teslas. I say that for resale. Tesla made a lot of P85 and P85D. Arguably too many, as high margin generators which typical owners trade more frequently. On the lower end, the 70 could eventually follow the footsteps of the 40 and 60. There's something to be said for the full life-cycle costs, if you go that direction.

 

[nanimac]

The 70D is plenty fast for me....I looked at an 85D inventory car (before the 70D was released) that was about $13K more than the 70D inventory car I was lucky to find. While it was faster, it wouldn't matter for daily driving. That being said, I did come out of a 40 so any improvement in acceleration was great for me. Plus I was struggling with the big price difference between my 40 and the 85D. Am easing my way up to the 100D or whatever is out in a few years

That being said...if you can afford the 90D..go for it!

 

[WMAC]

The 70 is plenty fast for normal driving. Anything more is pure stroking for self pleasure and swinging for others. It's faster than 99% of the cars you'll encounter - unless you're trolling for drag races. After a couple months, you'll likely find yourself trying to see how well you can reduce your watts/mile and will drive fairly conservatively 90% of the time.

 

[byan1232]

The 70 is plenty fast for normal driving. Anything more is pure stroking for self pleasure and swinging for others. It's faster than 99% of the cars you'll encounter - unless you're trolling for drag races. After a couple months, you'll likely find yourself trying to see how well you can reduce your watts/mile and will drive fairly conservatively 90% of the time.

Althought I ordered the 90D, I agree what WMAC said here. You have to drive conservatively in order to maximize range.

 

[David_Cary]

I love the resale arguments. The resale value is best for the 60s and worst for the p85s. Even with the 70 now out, the 60 still does very very well with resale.

And remember a 70D is probably a 70. A 85 is really a 78. Something to consider...And a 90 - never has a Tesla shown such high initial degradation. Just giving the other side of the argument

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

The 70 is plenty fast for normal driving. Anything more is pure stroking for self pleasure and swinging for others. It's faster than 99% of the cars you'll encounter - unless you're trolling for drag races. After a couple months, you'll likely find yourself trying to see how well you can reduce your watts/mile and will drive fairly conservatively 90% of the time.

All true, but it is nice to know that you can release the massive power of a P90D or 90D anytime your big toe desires. I enjoy my 85, but have really, really enjoyed when mine goes to service and they give me a P85+. So if you have the dough.

Upgrade, cough, for the range.

 

[FlatSix911]

Here is an interesting article along with a few charts to compare the current Tesla models...70/90 kWh.

Tesla Model S & Model X Comparison (Price, Range, Acceleration) After Removal Of 85 kWh Version
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-...acceleration-after-removal-of-85-kwh-version/

After Tesla Motors discontinued the 85 kWh battery pack version of the Model S and the 90 kWh single-motor version,
we thought it might be useful for those in market for a Tesla to compare all the versions available.


Tesla Model S and X comparison for U.S. (February 8, 2016) – some data estimated

Here is the Model S and Model X price, range and acceleration comparisons, which hopefully helps in understanding the differences.
There are now some 43 miles (EPA) difference between the Model S 70D and base Model S 90D.
The range differences between X and S aren’t that big – some 26 miles for 90D and just 16 miles in case of P90D (both in favor of the Model S).



Tesla Model S and X comparison for U.S. (February 8, 2016) – some data estimated for Tesla Model X

 

[edwolb]

I'll jump on the bandwagon and reinforce the decision for the 70D. I did the same as you and looked to test drive both. The P85+ was ridiculous, and I was hesitant to put in an order for a 70D without at least trying it. Finally I got an email to overnight test drive the 70D and I put in my order the next week. I actually ended up getting my test drive vehicle

Getting a P85+ loaner a few weeks later showed me the acceleration differences. It's definitely noticable if you go from one to the other, but only in an entertaining "holy crap that's fast" kind of way. For daily driving the 70D rocks anything else you normally find on the road, and quite often puts me past the speed my wife is comfortable with. I've already thrown coffee on my wife's lap, so in any normal sense, the 70D is already too much.

If you want to drag race with the Audi RS7 beside you, yeah you probably want the P90DL. 70D is still beyond fun, and will meet your performance needs in most conditions with more in your wallet.

 

[chriSharek]

Let's reread the OP's title as we have digressed. If I settled for a 70, I would certainly feel regret in purchasing a $70k+ car and not stretched for the additional speed with the 90D.

Having said that though, for some reason, I think the argument fails going from the 90D to P90D for the additional $20k. Maybe it's just me, but the 90D seems to be the sweet spot in providing the most range, best resale IMO due to degradation, while maintaining a balance with speed.

 

[byan1232]

totally agree with ChriSharek

 

[WMAC]

ITT: People who bought the 70 advocate that the 70 is plenty whereas 90 owners advocate that the 90 is better.

 

[FlatSix911]

Let's take a look at the data for few measurements of value ... feel free to draw your own conclusion

Model	Price	Range	0-60	Value Range ($/Mi)	Value 0-60 ($/Sec)	Incremental Cost
70	$63,700	230	5.5	$277	$11,582	$0
70D	$68,700	240	5.2	$286	$13,212	$5,000
90D	$81,700	283	4.2	$289	$19,452	$18,000
P90D	$101,700	266	3.1	$382	$32,806	$38,000
P90D	$111,700	266	2.8	$420	$39,893	$48,000

Here is an interesting article along with a few charts to compare the current Tesla models...70/90 kWh.
http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-...acceleration-after-removal-of-85-kwh-version/

Let's reread the OP's title as we have digressed. If I settled for a 70, I would certainly feel regret in purchasing a $70k+ car and not stretched for the additional speed with the 90D. Having said that though, for some reason, I think the argument fails going from the 90D to P90D for the additional $20k. Maybe it's just me, but the 90D seems to be the sweet spot in providing the most range, best resale IMO due to degradation, while maintaining a balance with speed.

 

[DFibRL8R]

I thought I'd chime in as a driver of a pokey 60 kWh Model S since no one else has...
Any Model S is quick due to the inherent efficiencies in the electric drive train and the overall power of these cars. I have driven all other options except P90DL. They are of course quicker than mine. That said, even the 60 is quicker than 99% of what is out there on the roads. Accelerating from stops, accelerating to pass at speed/merge is a breeze in the 60 and I have 70k miles of driving on mine. I have never had a situation where I felt I needed more power to do what needs to be done. Do I pick fights with Hellcats, Veyrons, and Huracans? No, but pretty much everybody else is fair game. And the best part is it is silent:smile:
There will always be a better, faster model coming down the pike and if you are prone to disappointment because you don't have the biggest/fastest battery you will stay disappointed/envious unless you upgrade yearly. Range is a different issue (off topic per the original question). 60 has plenty of range for daily driving needs, I make road trips work but obviously more range would be nice. I would like to see some improvement in efficiencies in reduced pack weight since I think hauling around a massive pack all the time so I can more easily take occasional road trips is wasteful.

 

[chriSharek]

Not sure Flatsix911's table shows the incremental costs between the various models. That's what we are valuing - the difference in costs. You almost had it but stopped one calc too soon. This is what I was trying to say and didn't!

0-60	Incremental costs	Incremental speed	$/1 sec of speed gained
5.5	$ -	0	-
5.2	$ 5,000	0.3	$ 16,666.67
4.2	$ 18,000	1.3	$ 13,846.15
3.1	$ 38,000	2.4	$ 15,833.33
2.8	$ 48,000	2.7	$ 17,777.78

 

[Max*]

ITT: People who bought the 70 advocate that the 70 is plenty whereas 90 owners advocate that the 90 is better.

This. Exactly this.


I don't think the question was if the 90D is better, because the 90D is better for range, better for battery degradation, better for acceleration.

The question in the OP is if the cost is worth the upgrade for speed? And each person has their own answer to that, to the people who paid less and got a slower car the answer is obviously* "no, it's not worth it", and to the people who paid more the answer is obviously "yes, it's worth it".

*unless they were really stretching their budget to get the 60/70/70D, in which case I don't think they'd even be replying to "is it worth it"

 

[Beryl]

ITT: People who bought the 70 advocate that the 70 is plenty whereas 90 owners advocate that the 90 is better.

I'm the exemption. I have a 90D and although I love everything about my 90D, I posted that don't think I'd regret the speed difference. The 70s are plenty fast @ 0-60 mph in 5.2 seconds!

 

[jerry33]

I would have range regrets, not speed regrets. The more range you start with the longer you can drive the car before the capacity is such that you can't do your normal driving.

 

[FlatSix911]

Good point on the incremental costs ... I should have used incremental speed and cost increase. Revised chart attached.

Model	Price	Range	0-60	Value for Range ($/Mi)	Value for 0-60 ($/Sec)	Incremental Cost	Incremental speed	Value $/1 sec of speed gained
70	$63,700	230	5.5	$277	$11,582
70D	$68,700	240	5.2	$286	$13,212	$5,000	0.3	$16,667
90D	$81,700	283	4.2	$289	$19,452	$18,000	1.3	$13,846
P90D	$101,700	266	3.1	$382	$32,806	$38,000	2.4	$15,833
P90D	$111,700	266	2.8	$420	$39,893	$48,000	2.7	$17,778

Not sure Flatsix911's table shows the incremental costs between the various models.
That's what we are valuing - the difference in costs. You almost had it but stopped one calc too soon. This is what I was trying to say and didn't!

0-60	Incremental costs	Incremental speed	$/1 sec of speed gained
5.5	$ -		-
5.2	$ 5,000	0.3	$ 16,666.67
4.2	$ 18,000	1.3	$ 13,846.15
3.1	$ 38,000	2.4	$ 15,833.33
2.8	$ 48,000	2.7	$ 17,777.78

 

[Candleflame]

to be honest, the only time the extra power really matters is during passing manouveres. And from what I have heard once you are above 50mph there is hardly any difference in acceleration. 0-60 in 4 seconds is a bit rediculous and noone will drive off like that at a traffic light. I'm sure it'll get boring after doing it 50 times.