75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?

[wdolson]

i see! thats interesting. i wonder if they will disclose whether or not it is a limited 90. that could explain the quicker sprint time. but if thats true, will they really allow removing of the software restriction? that doesn't sound likely since we could all buy 90's for the price of a 75. i read your last note on the tax rebate. very informative! thank you!

If it is really a 90, it is 100% guaranteed they will allow removing the restriction. They are not going to put batteries in cars that can't get used. That costs them money, and it's good advertising.

They did it before when they went from the 70-75. The last 70 KWh packs were really software limited 75s and they didn't announce it until they had been in production a month or so.

Any proof that the new 75's are limited 90's or is this just a hunch?

Educated guess.

1) Tesla only wants to make one pack module. That's more economical for them. With the old 75/90 and the 100 they had two module types in production. They will want to get the old module out of production ASAP and standardize on the new module.

2) They are having a fire sale on inventory 90s right now. I've never seen them be so aggressive about getting rid of an old version of the car so fast. When they did the refresh, the pre-refresh cars were discounted a little, but not like the 90s are right now. I think they want to get rid of all the inventory 90s before announcing the upgrade.

Can't see it myself given they don't make a 90 any more - and it's unlikely to be excess 90 stock given they claim it was a shortage of batteries that led to poor volume last quarter.

I've read that the problem was a shortfall in pack production, not in access to battery cells. It's quite possible they ran into some unexpected glitch converting production of the old 75/90 modules to the 100 modules that caused a production shortfall for a couple of weeks.

They have almost certainly been running two pack production lines for the last 8 months as they had two module types in production. The 100 pack line might have been humming along fine, but when they shut down the 75/90 line to convert it to making the 100 pack modules, they may have run into some kind of problem. This could be anything from realizing they got a wrong piece of equipment and the line was shut down until the new piece was delivered, it could mean an accident during switch over broke something that needed to be repaired, or it could be from some kind of IT problem with the line after switch over.

I've spent a week or more trying to find a bug. It can happen.

Sorry to tell you but it's just 3-6 months full credit, after the 200k mark is hit. The rest of the quarter in which the 200 thousandth sale was and then another quarter. So if they sell #200,000 on January 1st, the halved credit will start out July 1st, until Jan 1st 2019, when the incentives drop to $1,875 for another 6 months.

The real bad thing is that the timeframe would be the same, if they reached 200k in February, or March, but I expect them to hit the magic number some time in January, or early February. So maybe they will hold off on topping 200k US sales until May and squeeze in some EU/China/Canada sales? Probably not.

So better get your car before July 1st 2018.

My bad. I forgot it was only 3-6 months, not 6-9 at the $7500 level.

 

[ecarfan]

battery improvements? was the range affected in addition to the 0-60 time?

No, range remained the same. The change was a significant decrease in the 0-60 time. No one outside of Tesla knows for sure what was changed in the cars to accomplish that. So far, Tesla isn't saying.

 

[JonG]

If it is really a 90, it is 100% guaranteed they will allow removing the restriction. They are not going to put batteries in cars that can't get used. That costs them money, and it's good advertising.

They did it before when they went from the 70-75. The last 70 KWh packs were really software limited 75s and they didn't announce it until they had been in production a month or so.



Educated guess.

1) Tesla only wants to make one pack module. That's more economical for them. With the old 75/90 and the 100 they had two module types in production. They will want to get the old module out of production ASAP and standardize on the new module.

2) They are having a fire sale on inventory 90s right now. I've never seen them be so aggressive about getting rid of an old version of the car so fast. When they did the refresh, the pre-refresh cars were discounted a little, but not like the 90s are right now. I think they want to get rid of all the inventory 90s before announcing the upgrade.



I've read that the problem was a shortfall in pack production, not in access to battery cells. It's quite possible they ran into some unexpected glitch converting production of the old 75/90 modules to the 100 modules that caused a production shortfall for a couple of weeks.

They have almost certainly been running two pack production lines for the last 8 months as they had two module types in production. The 100 pack line might have been humming along fine, but when they shut down the 75/90 line to convert it to making the 100 pack modules, they may have run into some kind of problem. This could be anything from realizing they got a wrong piece of equipment and the line was shut down until the new piece was delivered, it could mean an accident during switch over broke something that needed to be repaired, or it could be from some kind of IT problem with the line after switch over.

I've spent a week or more trying to find a bug. It can happen.



My bad. I forgot it was only 3-6 months, not 6-9 at the $7500 level.

I think you're stretching the realms of logic. They've been making three battery packs fir some time, a 75, 90 and 100, they've dropped the 90. There are weight differences between a 75 and 90.

While having fewer things to make is no bad thing I really can't see it. A 50, 75 and 100 battery pack range makes more sense to me.

 

[wdolson]

I think you're stretching the realms of logic. They've been making three battery packs fir some time, a 75, 90 and 100, they've dropped the 90. There are weight differences between a 75 and 90.

While having fewer things to make is no bad thing I really can't see it. A 50, 75 and 100 battery pack range makes more sense to me.

They went from 70 to 75 to consolidate module production. The original 60 and 70 had fewer cells per module than the 85 and 90. The 90 and 75 used the same module, the only difference was the quantity. The small pack has always had 14 modules and the large pack 16. If they make a pack with 14 modules of the type used in the 100 KWH pack, that will be 89 KWh, which is actually a little more capacity than the old 90 pack.

Here is a breakdown of the different generations of packs

 

[R.S]

They went from 70 to 75 to consolidate module production. The original 60 and 70 had fewer cells per module than the 85 and 90. The 90 and 75 used the same module, the only difference was the quantity. The small pack has always had 14 modules and the large pack 16. If they make a pack with 14 modules of the type used in the 100 KWH pack, that will be 89 KWh, which is actually a little more capacity than the old 90 pack.

Here is a breakdown of the different generations of packs
View attachment 235123

Wow, if we assume that they use the cells on the right, they could do a 12 module pack with 76.8kWh. I'm not sure if they would really have a 90 and a 100, it just seems too close.

If they called it 85 and 100 maybe, but range would still be incredibly close and now that performance is also very close... I can't see them asking 23k for air suspension, the bigger charger, .1 second quicker to 60 and about 30 odd more miles of range.

Even 10k would be a lot to ask for that.

 

[wdolson]

Wow, if we assume that they use the cells on the right, they could do a 12 module pack with 76.8kWh. I'm not sure if they would really have a 90 and a 100, it just seems too close.

If they called it 85 and 100 maybe, but range would still be incredibly close and now that performance is also very close... I can't see them asking 23k for air suspension, the bigger charger, .1 second quicker to 60 and about 30 odd more miles of range.

Even 10k would be a lot to ask for that.

After Jason Hughes (wk057) tore down the 100 pack, I'm pretty sure they changed the cell chemistry a little. It's the only thing that makes the numbers work right.

Each module is 25V and they are wired in series. The large packs are 400V and the small 350V. I doubt they would want to go to a 300V pack, it would likely limit supercharging too much and I don't know if the superchargers are built to handle 300 V packs.

Another thing is a 12 module pack wouldn't get better performance than the existing 75 pack. You would have around the same power into the converter you see with the 75 pack today.

They might advertise it as the new 85, but with an 89 KWh battery, the small pack S would have a range a little over 300 miles. A little better than the old 90 which had an 86.8 KWH pack. It would be a further distinguishing feature between the Model 3 and Model S, there would likely be no overlap in range on the low end of the S with the high end of the 3. There would also be no confusion about pack sizes. The rumors are than the large pack Model 3 will have a 75 KWh battery.

Tesla would also pass a few Psychological barriers, the entry level S would have a range over 300 miles and the small pack would be bigger capacity than the original large pack.

I do agree that the advertised difference between the 100 and 90 doesn't sound big enough. For advertising purposes I think 85/100 is more likely, even though the pack will essentially be 90 KWh.

 

[JonG]

Just the top speed being 15mph lower to address

 

[Karlton770]

So a Tesla SC foreman informed me that the 75D flagged for qurking/twerking or whatever will receive the new 0-60 times. He said he thinks the cut off date for the AWD was cars that went into production after 16June. Anyone hear anything different?

 

[turbosimon]

So a Tesla SC foreman informed me that the 75D flagged for qurking/twerking or whatever will receive the new 0-60 times. He said he thinks the cut off date for the AWD was cars that went into production after 16June. Anyone hear anything different?

I was told that the cut off date was 6/19/2017 (build date). They will tell you what your build date but will not tell you if you have the new hardware on not.

 

[jdowell362]

I was told that the cut off date was 6/19/2017 (build date). They will tell you what your build date but will not tell you if you have the new hardware on not.

they told me. i wish they didnt. i dont have the new hardware (((((((((((((((

 

[turbosimon]

they told me. i wish they didnt. i dont have the new hardware (((((((((((((((

What was your build date?

 

[Karlton770]

What was your build date?

They told me too. My build date was 15June. They said I didn't have it.

 

[dennis_d]

According to this thread Pack Swap on 70D to 90kWh HP? , which is way ahead of time it's primarily the firmware update. All current D models are able to get 4.1-4.3s performance, for 75 battery packs it's limited only by battery output, but it should be less than 5.2s.

 

[toticdqs]

They told me too. My build date was 15June. They said I didn't have it.

Do youave du00 in the url code?

 

[Mbenz528i]

According to this thread Pack Swap on 70D to 90kWh HP? , which is way ahead of time it's primarily the firmware update. All current D models are able to get 4.1-4.3s performance, for 75 battery packs it's limited only by battery output, but it should be less than 5.2s.

That's my hope! I have no doubt that the 0-60 can be increased via firmware. If that doesn't work, packs can also be upgraded...its the cost that is more difficult to pin down. IMO, Tesla should just create a tuning option. Let its customers pay to unlock more power and upgrade batteries.

 

[Karlton770]

Do youave du00 in the url code?

Already took delivery. Can't pull up "view specs" URL any more.

 

[Krash]

Already took delivery. Can't pull up "view specs" URL any more.

Any chance you would be willing to install Visible Tesla and check your option codes? Go to the Overview tab and select the Details button. Don't post your tesla ID, vehicle ID or full VIN here, but I think all the four (or one five) digit option codes are safe - the ones after ,"option_codes":". Do you have DU00 there? You can see what they mean in the Options Decoder. Select Show All Possible Options and then select US Options List.

You can still see the Tesla URL by right clicking the car image on the mytesla page using Chrome or some non IE browsers. Select "Copy Image Address". Then paste it into the Check Your Options section of the Options Decoder. But in my case it doesn't have DU00 in the URL.

Of the 65 codes I get from Visible Tesla, 45 are known. Of those 45, only the DU00 and the BR00 code are suspect - The best case scenario being that I have a new drive unit and my car is a software limited 90 rather than a 75 underneath as wdolson speculates on the forum here.

 

[dennis_d]

Of the 65 codes I get from Visible Tesla, 45 are known. Of those 45, only the DU00 and the BR00 code are suspect - The best case scenario being that I have a new drive unit and my car is a software limited 90 rather than a 75 underneath as wdolson speculates on the forum here.

All drive units in D cars are the same, 90 is a size of a battery. I don't think they use the 90kW battery in 75s cars. You can always double check by looking under the car and check battery sticker. I believe it should be on the left-hand side front passenger seat. If it's 90 it will say it on the sticker and would probably say 400VDC

 

[brianman]

I agree ... time to update the Model S performance specifications wiki with the + Designation

No. Totally confusing at best.

 

[Krash]

All drive units in D cars are the same, 90 is a size of a battery. I don't think they use the 90kW battery in 75s cars. You can always double check by looking under the car and check battery sticker. I believe it should be on the left-hand side front passenger seat. If it's 90 it will say it on the sticker and would probably say 400VDC

I knew 90 was a battery size in kWh, or at least an unlocked battery size in the case of the former 60D and some others. I didn't know about the battery sticker. Yes my battery size is 350VDC. I'll give wdolson the news.