75 and 75D variants increased performance from July 1st - software and hardware improvements?

[Maximilien]

Watching the posts in this thread is like riding a roller-coaster.

One says we all get it and others say most of us will not get it.

One moment I get excited and another moment I sigh.

 

[byeLT4]

So what do we know for certain??

Build dates on/after 7/1 are the new version 100%, correct?
Build dates on/after 6/19 appear to be new version (until we hear otherwise).
If the 6/19 date is correct, the change is around VIN 2035XX (again, until we hear otherwise).

 

[GaryREM]

Just installed 17.26.76 and no new notes...

 

[jdowell362]

Maybe this have some of the explanation for the faster acceleration.

Tesla Model 3 exclusive leaked specs: 300kW+ inverter architecture putting its power capacity near Model S

wow i hope that my new inventory car was made in the new line up. i was going to build one from scratch which would have of course been apart of the 4.2 75d crowd, but my sales person found one already made in NC. its the new 2017 models but they of course never said anything about performance difference when getting the one in nc. i opted for that one because it was already made and i could save on the timing of delivery and also it had leather seats at a discounted price. i really hope i didnt get stuck with a car that has a lesser performance than one i was originally going to get...

 

[turbosimon]

Called Fremont service to see what they say. "Olivie" said that only new cars with new hardware will have the increased performance. Software update won't do it, even for the D models.

So yea lot of conflicting info. Time will tell I guess!

New Cars meaning Build date of 7/1 or later?

 

[Rbcnr]

Guy said cars after 7/1 will be ready to go 4.2 sec. Cars built after 6/19 will have the hardware but need software update to go faster.

Unrelated - he also told me MS90 goes 0-60 in 2.5 sec. Hopefully he was an intern saying some bs and I can get it too lol

 

[Jlwine]

Called Fremont service to see what they say. "Olivie" said that only new cars with new hardware will have the increased performance. Software update won't do it, even for the D models.

So yea lot of conflicting info. Time will tell I guess!

Very frustrating that with a change like this that was sure to raise questions, they wouldn't make sure everyone is on the same page, with correct information..

 

[Maximilien]

Guy said cars after 7/1 will be ready to go 4.2 sec. Cars built after 6/19 will have the hardware but need software update to go faster.

Unrelated - he also told me MS90 goes 0-60 in 2.5 sec. Hopefully he was an intern saying some bs and I can get it too lol

MS 90 going 2.5 seconds sounds crazy.

Then what's next? P100D going 0-60 in 1.5 seconds?

Highly doubtful.

 

[wdolson]

In any system, performance is limited by the weakest link. In the Tesla drive train, I see 4 possible bottlenecks:

1) The motor's rating
2) The inverter's capacity
3) The current and voltage limits of the battery pack
4) Software limits which artificially limit the performance

Tesla has been up front from the start that software limits the top speed of the car. They have never said anything about software limits on performance, but while that's possible, I don't see where they have much need to limit performance on the small battery cars. For people who are trying to decide between a 75 and a 90 the slower acceleration of the 75 is not going to be a significant factor for most buyers. (Though there are always exceptions.) The difference in range is enough to distinguish between the two versions.

Going back to the 1st generation Model Ss, they all had the same hardware with two different batteries and changes in software. This article is written by someone who upgraded an original 60 to an 85. Tesla swapped the battery pack and changed some switches in the firmware to bring the horsepower up to that of the 85.

Life With Tesla Model S: Battery Upgrade From 60 kWh To 85 kWh

Tesla did limit the output of the motor in firmware, but only because the 60 pack couldn't deliver enough current to safely support the higher performance.

As far as we know, the 75D and 90D had the same hardware with different battery packs. The 0-60 performance difference between the old 75D and 90D was about the same difference as seen in the original 60 and the 85. The software limited 60/60D had the same 0-60 performance as the 75/75D, which indicates that whatever the limiting factor was, it was the same between the software limited and unlimited cars.

To me, it's always made a lot of sense the lower performance of the small pack cars was due to the lower power output from the pack and any software limits were just for safety and nothing else.

The more cells you have, the more power is available when accelerating hard. The original 60 to 75 had some performance improvement because there are more cells with higher capacity in the 75 pack. The 85D to 90D did not see any reported improvement which may indicate the bottleneck was somewhere else once you got into the larger packs, or it may just be Tesla didn't bother to update the specs. The 100D has more cells than the 85D and 90D did, and it got a small performance boost.

It's quite possible that Tesla is now shipping cars with new inverters and new motors, but I can't understand how doing this would improve the 75 that dramatically unless there was some other change that allowed more current from the battery pack.

I've been predicting that the small pack car was going to get updated to use the same modules as the 100 pack cars sometime soon. They are also doing everything they can to sell off the old 90Ds as fast as possible. The large pack has 16 modules, if you make a pack of 14 modules with the same modules, you get an 89 KWH pack and a tad more cells than the old 90D pack.

If the updated 75 is really a software limited 89 KWH pack, the numbers line up perfectly. The new 75D has almost identical 0-60 performance as the old 90D and if it has 14X modules from the 100 KWH pack, it would make perfect sense because it's cell count is very close to the old 90D pack.

It would also make sense they would be quiet about the new pack until all the old 90Ds in inventory were sold off. It would be confusing to customers which technology tree the pack was from. The slight improvement in 100D acceleration can easily be explained by Tesla just getting around to updating the specs for the pack that now has more cells than the old 90 pack and can deliver about 15% more current.

I could be wrong about all this. Tesla is notoriously hard to predict.

It does make sense they are updating the inverter and motors. The ones developed for the Model 3 are a generation newer tech and the old Model S equipment. Whereas they will likely contribute to higher reliability down the road, I don't see them contributing dramatically to performance alone because that wasn't the bottleneck, especially with the 75 KWH cars.

When the updated 75s start hitting the showrooms and into customer's hands, I'd be interested to see any pictures of the battery pack's label.

 

[bswn1]

There's a report on reddit of a user who bought an inventory model saying that Telsa is claiming all inventory models will be upgraded to the faster spec. This will be an upgrade that requires him to bring it into a SC when it's available, which makes me think it's primarily software but also potentially hardware.

 

[jddssc121]

There's a report on reddit of a user who bought an inventory model saying that Telsa is claiming all inventory models will be upgraded to the faster spec. This will be an upgrade that requires him to bring it into a SC when it's available, which makes me think it's primarily software but also potentially hardware.

I'm hoping this is true, and then eventually they offer an upgrade for current owners. I have a Q1 2017 75D that I'd be happy to pay to upgrade.

 

[Err0r]

wow i hope that my new inventory car was made in the new line up. i was going to build one from scratch which would have of course been apart of the 4.2 75d crowd, but my sales person found one already made in NC. its the new 2017 models but they of course never said anything about performance difference when getting the one in nc. i opted for that one because it was already made and i could save on the timing of delivery and also it had leather seats at a discounted price. i really hope i didnt get stuck with a car that has a lesser performance than one i was originally going to get...

This exact same thing happened to me. I built one from scratch after test driving it at my local Tesla location. After confirming the build a week later I get a call from my DS saying they have an exact inventory model as the one I built and said I should take it as my build is going to take an extra month to build (now I know why!). I said that would be great but I was worried about any changes that could occur and expressed this to my DS. He said not to worry that no major changes are in the works and there will not be any differences between the April 2017 inventory model VS my 75D that I built that would have been delivered to me in July/August. Guess who is laughing now? I totally got scammed in my opinion even though I understand I could have said no to the inventory model, but I was under the impression from a Tesla employee that there is nothing to worry about. I sent a long letter to Tesla about this over a week ago and still waiting to get a reply from them... I honestly feel like Tesla was trying to push out all inventory models knowing this new upgrade would kill the inventory models they have from selling and I fell under this.

I know Tesla is always changing, but had my build went through as originally planned, I would have this new upgrade. Now I am sitting on an outdated 3 week old (ownership wise) 75D with less than 800 miles. You can all tell me who cares just be glad your enjoying driving your Tesla. No, I am not happy at all and have a bad taste each time I get in my Tesla. Yes I am bitter about it and not getting over it. Hopefully Tesla can give me some good news to my concerns but highly doubt they will do anything and just tell me to go kick rocks.

 

[MP3Mike]

@VashX Did you get a discount on your inventory car? If so how much? How many miles were on it?

And in all likelihood the DS you were working with probably had no idea that this change was coming down the line.

He said not to worry that no major changes are in the works and there will not be any differences between the April 2017 inventory model VS my 75D that I built that would have been delivered to me in July/August.

I sure hope he didn't say exactly that, as everyone that has looked into Tesla at all knows that Elon has said that they make 10s to 100s of changes every week.

 

[sauce]

Exactly. I can tell you that from a sales management standpoint, you want your sales staff at the front line to know just enough to give adequate service, but at the same time to keep them largely ignorant of internal questions.

This protects the company and the sales force. Confidential info is better controlled and if a salesperson is pressured by a customer, risk is decreased of dropping info that should not be made public, hence protecting the salesperson's own job effectively.

I'm sure VashX's sales staff he was speaking to were perfectly honest and in goodwill and could not have know the info themselves. I also interpret the push to sell an inventory car two ways:

1) In trying to be helpful and avoid the customer an unnecessary wait period.
2) The sales staff do have monthly goals to attain so trying to channel customers into an immediate delivery makes sense from an internal standpoint.

 

[Err0r]

I got a $100 discount by taking an inventory model over my build. Car had I think 17 miles on it when I picked it up. I even asked the DS if this was a showroom floor model etc but he said no.

I don't understand why you are protecting the DS in this situation. Sure the DS may or may not have know about this new update coming around the corner, but he should not have answered my question and told me that there will not be a difference in the April VS my July/August build. That is the big issue here. He should have just said he is not sure and educated me about how often Tesla makes updates and how they are continuously improving their cars and technology and let me make my own conscience decision to take a car now or wait another month or two for the possible chance of an update. I was deceived and really wish I had this down on paper. I am the customer and I don't know everything about Tesla that is why I am asking the Tesla representative the questions. I should be told accurate and truthful responses regardless of the situation.

It really seems like Tesla needs to educate their employees a bit better on the information they give out to their customers and if they don't know the answer, they should just say they don't know and would have to get back to you on it. If you just read through this thread you will see so many mixed answers from actual Tesla employees about this new update being achieved through a software update and others saying the necessary hardware is required.

Edit: Coincidentally I just received an email from Tesla saying my local service center will be contacting me about the situation. Will see how it goes.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

I got a $100 discount by taking an inventory model over my build. Car had I think 17 miles on it when I picked it up. I even asked the DS if this was a showroom floor model etc but he said no.

I don't understand why you are protecting the DS in this situation. Sure the DS may or may not have know about this new update coming around the corner, but he should not have answered my question and told me that there will not be a difference in the April VS my July/August build. That is the big issue here. He should have just said he is not sure and educated me about how often Tesla makes updates and how they are continuously improving their cars and technology and let me make my own conscience decision to take a car now or wait another month or two for the possible chance of an update. I was deceived and really wish I had this down on paper. I am the customer and I don't know everything about Tesla that is why I am asking the Tesla representative the questions. I should be told accurate and truthful responses regardless of the situation.

It really seems like Tesla needs to educate their employees a bit better on the information they give out to their customers and if they don't know the answer, they should just say they don't know and would have to get back to you on it. If you just read through this thread you will see so many mixed answers from actual Tesla employees about this new update being achieved through a software update and others saying the necessary hardware is required.

Edit: Coincidentally I just received an email from Tesla saying my local service center will be contacting me about the situation. Will see how it goes.

Good luck. I'm sure everyone would be pissed if the same thing happened to them. The DS probably didn't know this change was coming, but he should know better than to reassure you that you wouldn't miss out on anything. I'm not at all surprised this happened to you. The Tesla employees are just people and not all people are cautious and compitant. Get everything in writing.

 

[jdowell362]

This exact same thing happened to me. I built one from scratch after test driving it at my local Tesla location. After confirming the build a week later I get a call from my DS saying they have an exact inventory model as the one I built and said I should take it as my build is going to take an extra month to build (now I know why!). I said that would be great but I was worried about any changes that could occur and expressed this to my DS. He said not to worry that no major changes are in the works and there will not be any differences between the April 2017 inventory model VS my 75D that I built that would have been delivered to me in July/August. Guess who is laughing now? I totally got scammed in my opinion even though I understand I could have said no to the inventory model, but I was under the impression from a Tesla employee that there is nothing to worry about. I sent a long letter to Tesla about this over a week ago and still waiting to get a reply from them... I honestly feel like Tesla was trying to push out all inventory models knowing this new upgrade would kill the inventory models they have from selling and I fell under this.

I know Tesla is always changing, but had my build went through as originally planned, I would have this new upgrade. Now I am sitting on an outdated 3 week old (ownership wise) 75D with less than 800 miles. You can all tell me who cares just be glad your enjoying driving your Tesla. No, I am not happy at all and have a bad taste each time I get in my Tesla. Yes I am bitter about it and not getting over it. Hopefully Tesla can give me some good news to my concerns but highly doubt they will do anything and just tell me to go kick rocks.

man im sorry to hear that. as a new development. i talked to them over the weekend. they gave me the option to put my money back into my custom build, but that may (most likely) lost the financing percentage i got on my tesla loan- not a big deal. but my main concern was my new inventory model (confirmed to have the slower power train) was about 193k on the vin number and that i may lose the fed tax credit if i changed it now to a custom build. i suppose thats something, but still not im backed into a corner to buy the new inventory model rather than a brand new one with new hardware. still not sure what i should do. i'm really interested in the fed tax credit. i suppose the 5.2sec model isn't that big of a deal

 

[byeLT4]

my main concern was my new inventory model (confirmed to have the slower power train) was about 193k on the vin number and that i may lose the fed tax credit if i changed it now to a custom build.

If you are ready to order I don't think that the tax credit will be lost anytime soon. I read that quite a few Teslas were being exported and that the actual number sold in the US that goes toward the affected tax credit number is significantly lower than 200k currently. Plus they will phase it out once reached so IIRC the first 3 months after the number is reached will still get the 7500 and it will drop in the following quarters. There is a thread on it in the Model 3 section that explains it better LOL!

 

[jdowell362]

Good luck. I'm sure everyone would be pissed if the same thing happened to them. The DS probably didn't know this change was coming, but he should know better than to reassure you that you wouldn't miss out on anything. I'm not at all surprised this happened to you. The Tesla employees are just people and not all people are cautious and compitant. Get everything in writing.

i tend to agree, but they look at the website dozens and dozens of times every single day. plus they get company confidential information that could have stated this change; of course thats an assumption. but to know that one day a specific model is 5.2 and then changes to 4.2 the next is something that they should have noticed. its one of the main features that is advertised on the site.

i feel its something that should have been said up front to me and others like me who feel completely duped.

i know tesla isn't something saintly nor has more evolved humans working their sales team, they have car salesmen that jumped ship and are still applying their cutthroat sales techniques with tesla. i still feel that tesla itself should make it better. they're going to have to be a cut above the rest if they want to scratch into the 2% market share of car sales

rant over. thank you!

 

[jdowell362]

If you are ready to order I don't think that the tax credit will be lost anytime soon. I read that quite a few Teslas were being exported and that the actual number sold in the US that goes toward the affected tax credit number is significantly lower than 200k currently. Plus they will phase it out once reached so IIRC the first 3 months after the number is reached will still get the 7500 and it will drop in the following quarters. There is a thread on it in the Model 3 section that explains it better LOL!

interesting. so the 193k # at the end of my vin is the total sales globally, not just in the us? i.e. this number isn't representative of how many were sold in the us and thus qual for the fed tax break? this is interesting news! ill look for that thread in the model 3 section, but if you have an idea where it is, id greatly appreciate it!