8.0 Music Player Unusable

[supratachophobia]

Response to your 2nd comment, first. I think they are spread to thin, with AP taking up the majority of their time and efforts after Josh died.

Thank you for your support. It's not just my list; bertl, yourself, tgs, mssnow, and several others were super helpful in not only adding to the list but refining it/testing it. That thread has several thousand views and a couple hundred posts. As for suggestions on what to reference, if you like the list we compiled, use it all in your email, or pick out only the ones important to you, or come up with your own. At this point, I truly believe they are unaware that there might be this many issues for USB audio users. As for mentioning me.... I'm pretty sure they'll know who was raising the fuss.

 

[tomas]

Response to your 2nd comment, first. I think they are spread to thin, with AP taking up the majority of their time and efforts after Josh died.

Thank you for your support. It's not just my list; bertl, yourself, tgs, mssnow, and several others were super helpful in not only adding to the list but refining it/testing it. That thread has several thousand views and a couple hundred posts. As for suggestions on what to reference, if you like the list we compiled, use it all in your email, or pick out only the ones important to you, or come up with your own. At this point, I truly believe they are unaware that there might be this many issues for USB audio users. As for mentioning me.... I'm pretty sure they'll know who was raising the fuss.

My point is that it is better that they get a single list than many competing ones. It's not about the author. I just wAnt to avoid confusion and also make it easier for more owners to be heard. Nice if we could all just say we support the "comprehensive USB bug list". Or something like that.

 

[bob_p]

I've had 8.0 now for a week in my classic (pre-AP) P85.

And, overall, except for a few nice features (homelink chime, overheat protection, car on for passenger after driver exit), the other changes are really unacceptable.

Activities which were very simple before are either much more complicated, or not even possible now - especially with the media player. Simple tasks like changing from USB to XM radio or back to USB (playing the same song) requires many more screen interactions - something that was quickly done with the right scroll wheel button.

There are so many bad UI features in this release, there's really no point in trying to list them - from the auto-hide on the map (which now requires extra screen touches to get at least some of the previous functionality accessible on the screen) to the revamped media player UI (it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to find the XM NFL game stations), the interface is really, really, really bad from a usability standpoint.

Good user interfaces have both an appealing look - and minimize unnecessary screen interactions for typical operations. While Tesla continues to optimize on what they think looks nice, the usability in 8.0 has taken a giant step backwards - which impacts safety when the driver is more distracted trying to interact with the system.

I've been responsible for major software systems (including releases with software more complex than what Tesla has developed), and if we'd ever released a product with so many problems (including frequent crashes - we had 9 crashes in one hour last week), heads would have rolled.

For a company that has strong Silicon Valley ties, it's really difficult to understand how something as bad as 8.0 was developed in the first place - and how Tesla believed this was acceptable to get out of beta testing.

This release is so bad, Tesla really should provide the option to roll back to 7.1 - and have an "open beta" for owners that are willing to live with this for now, and focus on getting this software fixed - before making it widely available again.

 

[RDoc]

I'm also annoyed that the radio (FM in my case) favorites are now on a separate screen rather than buttons on the FM radio display, which is mostly empty. Tesla seems to have forgotten that this is used in a moving vehicle and requiring paging through various sub menus is both annoying and heading towards being dangerous.

 

[derekmw]

I've had 8.0 now for a week in my classic (pre-AP) P85.

And, overall, except for a few nice features (homelink chime, overheat protection, car on for passenger after driver exit), the other changes are really unacceptable.

Activities which were very simple before are either much more complicated, or not even possible now - especially with the media player. Simple tasks like changing from USB to XM radio or back to USB (playing the same song) requires many more screen interactions - something that was quickly done with the right scroll wheel button.

There are so many bad UI features in this release, there's really no point in trying to list them - from the auto-hide on the map (which now requires extra screen touches to get at least some of the previous functionality accessible on the screen) to the revamped media player UI (it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to find the XM NFL game stations), the interface is really, really, really bad from a usability standpoint.

Good user interfaces have both an appealing look - and minimize unnecessary screen interactions for typical operations. While Tesla continues to optimize on what they think looks nice, the usability in 8.0 has taken a giant step backwards - which impacts safety when the driver is more distracted trying to interact with the system.

I've been responsible for major software systems (including releases with software more complex than what Tesla has developed), and if we'd ever released a product with so many problems (including frequent crashes - we had 9 crashes in one hour last week), heads would have rolled.

For a company that has strong Silicon Valley ties, it's really difficult to understand how something as bad as 8.0 was developed in the first place - and how Tesla believed this was acceptable to get out of beta testing.

This release is so bad, Tesla really should provide the option to roll back to 7.1 - and have an "open beta" for owners that are willing to live with this for now, and focus on getting this software fixed - before making it widely available again.

I completely agree. I also have been involved with many software releases over the past 20 years. This release seems to be rushed out the door. Either it was not thoroughly tested, or production release was allowed with a LARGE number of defects deferred. In either case, we're the ones having to now deal with this 'forced' update. Some minor annoyances is one thing, but I'm also frequently experiencing complete crashes of the touch screen system.

In addition, my slacker radio seems to rarely play a song through anymore. About 3/4 through the song, it hangs and then jumps to the next song.

 

[BEEZR]

I'm also annoyed that the radio (FM in my case) favorites are now on a separate screen rather than buttons on the FM radio display, which is mostly empty. Tesla seems to have forgotten that this is used in a moving vehicle and requiring paging through various sub menus is both annoying and heading towards being dangerous.

You can get your FM favorites back to the main screen -- just for some reason (bug) the AM/FM/XM? favorites didn't carry over with the update. If you unfavorite and then favorite a station, the tile will appear. However, they appear in the order in which you favorite them and not in numerical order (another "feature" that is really a bug). Also, the AM/FM favorites will be to the left of Streaming/TuneIn favorites, which are also in no sensible order and cannot be rearranged. It's really poorly designed and implemented.

 

[BEEZR]

I've had 8.0 now for a week in my classic (pre-AP) P85.

And, overall, except for a few nice features (homelink chime, overheat protection, car on for passenger after driver exit), the other changes are really unacceptable.

Activities which were very simple before are either much more complicated, or not even possible now - especially with the media player. Simple tasks like changing from USB to XM radio or back to USB (playing the same song) requires many more screen interactions - something that was quickly done with the right scroll wheel button.

There are so many bad UI features in this release, there's really no point in trying to list them - from the auto-hide on the map (which now requires extra screen touches to get at least some of the previous functionality accessible on the screen) to the revamped media player UI (it took me 5 minutes to figure out how to find the XM NFL game stations), the interface is really, really, really bad from a usability standpoint.

Good user interfaces have both an appealing look - and minimize unnecessary screen interactions for typical operations. While Tesla continues to optimize on what they think looks nice, the usability in 8.0 has taken a giant step backwards - which impacts safety when the driver is more distracted trying to interact with the system.

I've been responsible for major software systems (including releases with software more complex than what Tesla has developed), and if we'd ever released a product with so many problems (including frequent crashes - we had 9 crashes in one hour last week), heads would have rolled.

For a company that has strong Silicon Valley ties, it's really difficult to understand how something as bad as 8.0 was developed in the first place - and how Tesla believed this was acceptable to get out of beta testing.

This release is so bad, Tesla really should provide the option to roll back to 7.1 - and have an "open beta" for owners that are willing to live with this for now, and focus on getting this software fixed - before making it widely available again.

+1, bold emphasis is mine...

 

[Owner]

Classic Tesla here:

Dislike in 8.0
1. USB media downgrade
2. Cant keep camera on
3. Annoying auto zoom in on maps

8.0 Update

Another former software / hardware / engineer type involved in many releases. Did they have any testing? Do they care about backward compatibility of features? Any user input?

 

[Gizmotoy]

Another former software / hardware / engineer type involved in many releases. Did they have any testing? Do they care about backward compatibility of features? Any user input?

You have to wonder how much of these problems were schedule driven. Tesla had to post a phenomenal Q3. Meeting their sales numbers and releasing a major new software update looks good on paper.

 

[DamianC]

I can't keep my phone connected playing audio. It plays for 1-2 seconds and then just stops. Never had any issues before.

 

[bob_p]

Having a tight schedule is no excuse. I've been responsible for major software projects - which were all delivered on schedule - and with high quality.

It is possible to deliver software on an aggressive schedule, implementing new functionality - that works, but that can only be achieved if the software process is designed to do that.

With the number of bad UI choices implemented in 8.0, it really appears to be a failure across the board with Tesla's software development process. The development team was evidently provided an incomplete set of requirements & specifications that omitted the importance of usability, evidently no usability reviews were done while the software was being developed, and either Tesla's beta tester pool is too small OR Tesla's development team was allowed to ignore major UI-related problems reported by the testers.

With the Chevy Bolt coming out soon, it would be extremely surprising to see GM or any other manufacturer (when they start producing long range EVs) deliver a software release with the bugs and UI problems we've seen with 8.0.

And while Tesla may have different development teams working on the console apps and AutoPilot, seeing such obvious problems in the 8.0 core apps does raise some concern that there may also be quality problems in the AP software.

 

[RDoc]

You have to wonder how much of these problems were schedule driven. Tesla had to post a phenomenal Q3. Meeting their sales numbers and releasing a major new software update looks good on paper.

You know, one of the things I learned after the first few years as a software engineer was how to say no.

Any software organization that releases because of a schedule when the software is a mess is doomed to a very bad future. Once you let a software base get out of control, very soon it becomes pretty much a total loss requiring a compete rewrite.

 

[RogerHScott]

You can get your FM favorites back to the main screen -- just for some reason (bug) the AM/FM/XM? favorites didn't carry over with the update. If you unfavorite and then favorite a station, the tile will appear. However, they appear in the order in which you favorite them and not in numerical order (another "feature" that is really a bug). Also, the AM/FM favorites will be to the left of Streaming/TuneIn favorites, which are also in no sensible order and cannot be rearranged. It's really poorly designed and implemented.

Note that if you did have XM favorites prior to upgrading they may be a total train wreck afterward. I found that many of the Media Player
"bugs" that I was experiencing only occurred with favorites that had been carried forward. Once I deleted those (sometime very
difficult to do due to the aforementioned bugs) and recreated them things got a lot better. This process also allowed me (in a really lame
workaround sort of way) to get them into a sane order.

 

[BEEZR]

Having a tight schedule is no excuse. I've been responsible for major software projects - which were all delivered on schedule - and with high quality.

It is possible to deliver software on an aggressive schedule, implementing new functionality - that works, but that can only be achieved if the software process is designed to do that.

With the number of bad UI choices implemented in 8.0, it really appears to be a failure across the board with Tesla's software development process. The development team was evidently provided an incomplete set of requirements & specifications that omitted the importance of usability, evidently no usability reviews were done while the software was being developed, and either Tesla's beta tester pool is too small OR Tesla's development team was allowed to ignore major UI-related problems reported by the testers.

With the Chevy Bolt coming out soon, it would be extremely surprising to see GM or any other manufacturer (when they start producing long range EVs) deliver a software release with the bugs and UI problems we've seen with 8.0.

And while Tesla may have different development teams working on the console apps and AutoPilot, seeing such obvious problems in the 8.0 core apps does raise some concern that there may also be quality problems in the AP software.

Agree with everything you say. However, I just returned my leased Volt after 3 years and bought a CPO Model S and can tell you the Volt's UI/UX (last gen) left a lot to be desired. It was frustrating to use and no where near what Tesla has. I agree they wouldn't (shouldn't) release with so many bugs, but, man, it was poorly conceived and implemented. Like some of the issues with 8.0, Chevrolet seemed to have dismissed fundamental design and usability standards. With so much rich knowledge of graphic interfaces, from Mac to Windows to iPad to just about any good website, it's amazing to me that Chevy (and now Tesla with 8.0) could make so many fundamental mistakes...

 

[supratachophobia]

My point is that it is better that they get a single list than many competing ones. It's not about the author. I just wAnt to avoid confusion and also make it easier for more owners to be heard. Nice if we could all just say we support the "comprehensive USB bug list". Or something like that.

Maybe we do a poll? I did

Agree with everything you say. However, I just returned my leased Volt after 3 years and bought a CPO Model S and can tell you the Volt's UI/UX (last gen) left a lot to be desired. It was frustrating to use and no where near what Tesla has. I agree they wouldn't (shouldn't) release with so many bugs, but, man, it was poorly conceived and implemented. Like some of the issues with 8.0, Chevrolet seemed to have dismissed fundamental design and usability standards. With so much rich knowledge of graphic interfaces, from Mac to Windows to iPad to just about any good website, it's amazing to me that Chevy (and now Tesla with 8.0) could make so many fundamental mistakes...

At least with the Tesla, they *can* update the software at any time. The frustration part is whether or not they choose to do so. Hopefully with v8 AP doing it's thing in the wild now, they can shift attention to Media and Maps.

 

[iffatall]

...At least with the Tesla, they *can* update the software at any time. The frustration part is whether or not they choose to do so. Hopefully with v8 AP doing it's thing in the wild now, they can shift attention to Media and Maps.

Well, for past few years, that's what we had been hoping. We had several bugs/feature requests from many releases ago, and we thought Tesla would come to them in a release where they actually focus on the media player. And I think 8.0 was that release where they finally focused on Media Player, and look what they did . I wonder how long it will be before another Media Player focused release comes about.

We all always talk about this unique capability of Tesla to update software, and that pacifies any complaints we might have. But I have come to realize this OTA capability is actually used mostly for introduction of new features rather than for fixing non-safety bugs.
For example, I am more hopeful of these media player bugs to get fixed, when Tesla actually introduces a completely new media player. I have little hope that Tesla will actually send an OTA update that actually fixes these bugs.

 

[BEEZR]

Well, for past few years, that's what we had been hoping. We had several bugs/feature requests from many releases ago, and we thought Tesla would come to them in a release where they actually focus on the media player. And I think 8.0 was that release where they finally focused on Media Player, and look what they did . I wonder how long it will be before another Media Player focused release comes about.

We all always talk about this unique capability of Tesla to update software, and that pacifies any complaints we might have. But I have come to realize this OTA capability is actually used mostly for introduction of new features rather than for fixing non-safety bugs.
For example, I am more hopeful of these media player bugs to get fixed, when Tesla actually introduces a completely new media player. I have little hope that Tesla will actually send an OTA update that actually fixes these bugs.

If it was pushed to market too soon (it was), if there are bugs to be fixed (there are), if they can improve user experience and quell dissatisfaction (they can), perhaps there's a chance they already have a plan for an 8.1 release to clean up the mess (let's hope). It is entirely possible they couldn't get everything finished as would make sense but they wanted/needed to get the 8.0 release out, for several other reasons, and so they deferred some features/fixes beyond 8.0. That's software, right?

 

[Owner]

Nope, that is not software. Having spent my whole career working in more complex software than this, you just don't take away functionality like they did here. You may not fix old bugs or add requested enhancements, but they regressed the software. Almost reads to me that they don't have any regression testing of say screen capture sequences etc...

If it was pushed to market too soon (it was), if there are bugs to be fixed (there are), if they can improve user experience and quell dissatisfaction (they can), perhaps there's a chance they already have a plan for an 8.1 release to clean up the mess (let's hope). It is entirely possible they couldn't get everything finished as would make sense but they wanted/needed to get the 8.0 release out, for several other reasons, and so they deferred some features/fixes beyond 8.0. That's software, right?

 

[RogerHScott]

That's software, right?

No. Just because you need (legitimately or not) to get component A out doesn't mean you have to release component B
before it is ready.

 

[Gizmotoy]

perhaps there's a chance they already have a plan for an 8.1 release to clean up the mess (let's hope).

As someone still waiting for the classic Model S fixes there were promised for 7.1 when 7.0 launched, I think it's a mistake to assume there's already a plan in place that involves resolving these issues in 8.1.