8.0

[somnambule]

Yes, Tesla just announced that it will double the safety of Model S and X (and Model 3) with AP overnight with a software update.

And according to Elon, the same update will triple safety over time with fleet learning.

And the price of this huge safety increase? Zero, zip, nada for current owners.

Ho-hum. Stuff like this happens all the time with other car companies, right?

Pfft. I don't like this prole mindset of Tesla. When I had to update the software in my BMW right after the warranty expired (which the dealership had very thoughtfully avoided updating during the entire 4-year warranty period), I had to pay several hundred $ just for the software update. I even had to sign a waiver saying if any hardware failed after the software update, I would be liable for that. And when the software update didn't fix the problem, I had to pay yet again to replace some hardware. Now *that* is luxury! And German engineering at its finest. You folks have no idea what you are missing out on!!

 

[Electroman]

Green1: will you just back to your own thread instead of bombing every new thread with your exaggerations ?

 

[Vince Cobelo]

What will be really "interesty" is if...just if 8.0 is not safer. I'm feelin' pretty safe with 7.2. Could/would Tesla walk back the whole radar is running AP thing? With the ever increasing number of S/Xs on the road and the inevitable increase in the number of accidents will the press magnify inaccurately how 8.0 contributes to safety? (You bet they will.)

On top of that...What about Model 3. The big dog in just starting to peek its nose in the house. Will it roll out with the hardware needed to get to AP 2.0? Tesla holds back on the software...drip drip.

This is one of the most fascinating business stories of our lifetimes. Pay attention and enjoy.

 

[MP3Mike]

So what if you haven't paid for Autopilot and you are driving along and one of the events happens that would activate AutoSteer to avoid/mitigate a crash? Will it enable AutoSteer in that case, or do you get to be in an accident because you didn't pay for Autopilot? (I'm hoping that falls under the free Autopilot safety features category.

 

[Saghost]

So what if you haven't paid for Autopilot and you are driving along and one of the events happens that would activate AutoSteer to avoid/mitigate a crash? Will it enable AutoSteer in that case, or do you get to be in an accident because you didn't pay for Autopilot? (I'm hoping that falls under the free Autopilot safety features category.

If it gets to the point where they're talking about autosteer keeping you on the road, I'd think that would qualify as an AP safety feature and be given to everyone.

If you think AP might be smart enough to help you, you really should spend the money to buy it anyway.

 

[willdlsu]

8.0 has only one purpose. To limit AP features further than 7.1 did. Knowing that nobody would install a release if that was all they advertised (though I'm starting to think far too many people would...) Tesla is throwing in some minor stuff and talking it up a bunch to try to hide that it's real purpose is to remove functionality owners paid for.

I tend to agree. If the AP is going to be improved so substantially, then why do users have to be nagged every 1 minute when traveling speeds over 45 mph? I recently test drove a Model S for a day and used AutoPilot on a toll road for 45 minutes and it only nagged me once. I certainly paid attention throughout and the alert seemed to be just to confirm I was paying attention as there was no change in conditions. I was so impressed, I ordered one on Sept. 2. While improved performance of AP sound likes it on the way, the daily user experience is going to substantially changed for the worse (with the obvious exception of eliminating the danger posed in the FL accident). Overall, the update appears to reflect Tesla's concessions with NHTSA at the cost of user experience.

 

[esk8mw]

I tend to agree. If the AP is going to be improved so substantially, then why do users have to be nagged every 1 minute when traveling speeds over 45 mph? I recently test drove a Model S for a day and used AutoPilot on a toll road for 45 minutes and it only nagged me once. I certainly paid attention throughout and the alert seemed to be just to confirm I was paying attention as there was no change in conditions. I was so impressed, I ordered one on Sept. 2. While improved performance of AP sound likes it on the way, the daily user experience is going to substantially changed for the worse (with the obvious exception of eliminating the danger posed in the FL accident). Overall, the update appears to reflect Tesla's concessions with NHTSA at the cost of user experience.

Um, what? Where do you see where 8.0 will increase nagging or change the user experience at all? As I explained above, the lone difference is that if you ignore 4 audible warnings in an hour span (yes, ignoring the second level warning) then you just can't reengage AP until the car is put in park. That's it. Tesla did not commit to changing the nag algorithm or add timed nags or anything like that. Read the post. This is how rumors get started.

 

[sandpiper]

I tend to agree. If the AP is going to be improved so substantially, then why do users have to be nagged every 1 minute when traveling speeds over 45 mph? I recently test drove a Model S for a day and used AutoPilot on a toll road for 45 minutes and it only nagged me once. I certainly paid attention throughout and the alert seemed to be just to confirm I was paying attention as there was no change in conditions. I was so impressed, I ordered one on Sept. 2. While improved performance of AP sound likes it on the way, the daily user experience is going to substantially changed for the worse (with the obvious exception of eliminating the danger posed in the FL accident). Overall, the update appears to reflect Tesla's concessions with NHTSA at the cost of user experience.

The gave us the chance to take responsibility for our own actions, like adults. We failed, blamed Tesla for our own idiocy and so the NHTSA or Tesla or both decided that we need to be treated like children.

 

[sandpiper]

Um, what? Where do you see where 8.0 will increase nagging or change the user experience at all? As I explained above, the lone difference is that if you ignore 4 audible warnings in an hour span (yes, ignoring the second level warning) then you just can't reengage AP until the car is put in park. That's it. Tesla did not commit to changing the nag algorithm or add timed nags or anything like that. Read the post. This is how rumors get started.

If you're watching the road, you generally don't see the visual warning - or at least I don't. I don't choose to ignore it. Maybe it will be more obvious after 8.0.

 

[Chopr147]

The extra AP safety measures do not bother me at all! That's because I use it everyday. Sure I may initially miss the first warning at times but never more than that. Unless the naysayers know something the rest of us don't (ie .. PM from Elon)
I don't get the paranoia. And it's not taken away. You just are inconvienenced for a 1 MINUTE!

 

[MP3Mike]

Um, what? Where do you see where 8.0 will increase nagging or change the user experience at all? As I explained above, the lone difference is that if you ignore 4 audible warnings in an hour span (yes, ignoring the second level warning) then you just can't reengage AP until the car is put in park. That's it. Tesla did not commit to changing the nag algorithm or add timed nags or anything like that. Read the post. This is how rumors get started.

I think he is referring to the information someone posted, and linked to, in this post.

 

[willdlsu]

Um, what? Where do you see where 8.0 will increase nagging or change the user experience at all? As I explained above, the lone difference is that if you ignore 4 audible warnings in an hour span (yes, ignoring the second level warning) then you just can't reengage AP until the car is put in park. That's it. Tesla did not commit to changing the nag algorithm or add timed nags or anything like that. Read the post. This is how rumors get started.

Tell that to Reuters - fairly respectable news org. Tesla's Musk says new Autopilot likely would have prevented death

"The revised system will sound warnings if drivers take their hands off the wheel for more than a minute at speeds above 45 miles per hour (72 kph) when there is no vehicle ahead, Musk said.

The warning will sound after the driver’s hands are off the wheel for more than three minutes when the Tesla is following another car at speeds above 45 mph. The dashboard also will flash a pulsing light."

 

[Saghost]

Um, what? Where do you see where 8.0 will increase nagging or change the user experience at all? As I explained above, the lone difference is that if you ignore 4 audible warnings in an hour span (yes, ignoring the second level warning) then you just can't reengage AP until the car is put in park. That's it. Tesla did not commit to changing the nag algorithm or add timed nags or anything like that. Read the post. This is how rumors get started.

There have been a bunch of articles saying 1 minute nags above 45 mph and 3 minute below.

There wasn't anything to that effect in the blog post, and I can't find it in the first four sections of the transcript electrek has been assembling, but since it showed up in so many different reports, I'm assuming we'll see the original source in Part 5.

I'm still thinking/hoping it's been misunderstood by the media, but we'll have to see.

 

[sandpiper]

Tell that to Reuters - fairly respectable news org. Tesla's Musk says new Autopilot likely would have prevented death

"The revised system will sound warnings if drivers take their hands off the wheel for more than a minute at speeds above 45 miles per hour (72 kph) when there is no vehicle ahead, Musk said.

The warning will sound after the driver’s hands are off the wheel for more than three minutes when the Tesla is following another car at speeds above 45 mph. The dashboard also will flash a pulsing light."

That's what I read. And that's very much a disappointment if it's the case. But again, who can blame them? We get what we deserve. I'm betting that Elon's personal vehicle doesn't do this. I bet there's an undocumented technique that disables this behaviour.

 

[esk8mw]

Tell that to Reuters - fairly respectable news org. Tesla's Musk says new Autopilot likely would have prevented death

"The revised system will sound warnings if drivers take their hands off the wheel for more than a minute at speeds above 45 miles per hour (72 kph) when there is no vehicle ahead, Musk said.

The warning will sound after the driver’s hands are off the wheel for more than three minutes when the Tesla is following another car at speeds above 45 mph. The dashboard also will flash a pulsing light."

OK, thanks - I stand corrected (probably). I'll wait for the transcript to make my own assessment. It'll be a shame if they add timed nags, though understandable. Stupid people have forced his hand, essentially.

Though, to the "ignoring" point - I take it to mean that the driver has to not respond to the audible beep 4 times. In other words, wait until the car starts slowing down because you ignored the visual warning and the audible warning - 4 times. In an hour. Even with timed nags this does not seem onerous.

 

[sandpiper]

OK, thanks - I stand corrected (probably). I'll wait for the transcript to make my own assessment. It'll be a shame if they add timed nags, though understandable. Stupid people have forced his hand, essentially.

Though, to the "ignoring" point - I take it to mean that the driver has to not respond to the audible beep 4 times. In other words, wait until the car starts slowing down because you ignored the visual warning and the audible warning - 4 times. In an hour. Even with timed nags this does not seem onerous.

No... I think it means that the car detected that you did not continue to hang onto the wheel after the audible warning. He specifically referred to the problematic practice, by expert users, of instinctively tugging the wheel to kill the audible warning.

 

[ecarfan]

I would venture to say he was being sarcastic.

Sarcasm often is lost in pure text communications online between people who do not know each other personally.

 

[calisnow]

I am more excited about 8.0 than iPhone 7. LOL

But - it would be nice if Elon had talked a little bit about improvements to other areas besides AP.

Media
Nav
Phone integration

Strange that nobody from the media asked him either. So 8.0 is a bit of a poocake, I mean I like cake, but I know whats inside, so gonna scrape off the top to get rid of kidspit, eat a layer, and throw the rest.

Anyone else feel this way?

No, I don't. No disrespect Guac - I usually like your posts. But Tesla has figured out a way to create a 3D point map and fleet learning at 10 frames per second on existing hardware to seriously improve the collision avoidance capabilities of autopilot - and your reaction is to gripe that they haven't also updated the media player this time around?

REALLY?

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The problem with this whole nag issue is it's come up as point of contention on every single update.

In the 7.1 release it was a huge issue before the release, and during the rollout. Lots of people said it nagged more and that they were timed nags, but no one could demonstrate any consistency.

Now with 8.0 we have Elon himself saying what our expectations should be. Where it can be as many as 1 every minute on the freeway with no cars in front of you. Which is significantly worse than the nags we have now.

But, Elon says lots of stuff that don't pan out to be really true. He's combating a perception problem so he's prone to exaggeration.

For me it's a non-issue since I find myself more engaged if I keep at least a finger on the steering wheel. It also helps me anticipate any issue with truck lust.

It's also a non-issue because the environment I use AP on. I don't live in an area where I really get much of a break from traffic where I can relax. I don't live in a place where you're really driving. The commute anywhere is just driving behind someone, and what you're behind switches up occasionally. You don't even need blindspot detection because you always know someone is there. It's also made worse because they happen to be some of the worst drivers in the US, and some of the most distracted. Someone sliding into my lane with their cell phone in their hand is pretty common. It's not like Alberta, Canada where the biggest concern is likely a Moose.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

8.0 has only one purpose. To limit AP features further than 7.1 did. Knowing that nobody would install a release if that was all they advertised (though I'm starting to think far too many people would...) Tesla is throwing in some minor stuff and talking it up a bunch to try to hide that it's real purpose is to remove functionality owners paid for.

Unfortunately, if you don't keep your hands on the wheel at all times while using AP, you are doing so against Tesla's explicit, written instructions. If the implementation of a requirement to hold the wheel bothers you so much, then perhaps you are among that select group of drivers that is part of the problem Tesla is trying to solve.