$8,000 for a Charger in my Apartment Building: Request for better ideas...

[jboy210]

I already have a Model 3, so that ship has sailed. (No regrets either. It is a truly wonderful car.)

I have close family nearby and have been using their charger and SuperCharger sessions to date. It's workable, but I think I can do better. In addition to the cost savings of being able to use the nighttime EV rate for charging, I've looked at my electric usage and think the EV rate will allow additional savings beyond the savings in charging costs. I'm not sure that those savings will completely offset the charger installation cost, but they don't need to: there is a considerable convenience advantage of having a car that is ready to go every morning without my having to strategize about when and where to charge it, and I'm willing to pay extra for that.

Finally, I would like to find a workable plan for other units in this apartment complex to add ev charging and leave that information with management. It isn't all about me.

Sorry I did not realize you had already purchased the car.

I commend your persistence to getting a workable solution for apartment units. You might want to blog about the process, technical details, and issues so that your work carries beyond a specific apartment complex. This could help solve one of the big issues with EV proliferation, which is how renters can get around these charging issues.

I look forward to hearing more about your installation.

If you want to see my trails and tribulations on a more "standard" home installation pop over to the Model X Battery and Charging section. Nothing like yours, but it has been an education! One day (and a few thousand $ later) I hope to be able to charge at more than 2 MPH.

 

[rachelhikes]

A process update.

I now have a quote for $1500, including a Tesla wall connector. Clearly things are immensely better than the $8,000 estimate. This amount is highly workable.

The plan is to add a line to my parking space, from the building's electrical room, tapping into the line that runs from my meter to my apartment. (The electricity used for charging would still show up on my meter and my electrical bill.) The line would run inside the garage along the edge of the ceiling through a conduit. I didn't even know this approach was possible, which is why people like me should not do their own electrical work. The original idea was to end the line in an outlet, but in the current version it ends at a Tesla wall connector. I don't know if the wall charger will simplify or complicate approval by building management. I'll find out, I guess. If management objects to the wall connector, I can see if they'll go for the outlet instead. But, for now, I'm trying to go down the wall charger road. Keeping my fingers crossed!

One thing I've already done is replaced the old, dumb thermostat in my apartment with a new, smart thermostat. This will let me control my energy use better, which is especially important if I go ahead and switch to the EV rate plan with PG&E, which has a lot of rate variation depending on time of day. My hope is that smarter electrical use management can contribute to offsetting some of the costs of the charger installation.

A final thing I'm doing is working on is a 2-year lease extension, to lock in the value received from the charger. Like the electrical work, that, too, has to be approved by management.

 

[Trevor B]

A process update.

I now have a quote for $1500, including a Tesla wall connector. Clearly things are immensely better than the $8,000 estimate. This amount is highly workable.

The plan is to add a line to my parking space, from the building's electrical room, tapping into the line that runs from my meter to my apartment. (The electricity used for charging would still show up on my meter and my electrical bill.) The line would run inside the garage along the edge of the ceiling through a conduit. I didn't even know this approach was possible, which is why people like me should not do their own electrical work. The original idea was to end the line in an outlet, but in the current version it ends at a Tesla wall connector. I don't know if the wall charger will simplify or complicate approval by building management. I'll find out, I guess. If management objects to the wall connector, I can see if they'll go for the outlet instead. But, for now, I'm trying to go down the wall charger road. Keeping my fingers crossed!

One thing I've already done is replaced the old, dumb thermostat in my apartment with a new, smart thermostat. This will let me control my energy use better, which is especially important if I go ahead and switch to the EV rate plan with PG&E, which has a lot of rate variation depending on time of day. My hope is that smarter electrical use management can contribute to offsetting some of the costs of the charger installation.

A final thing I'm doing is working on is a 2-year lease extension, to lock in the value received from the charger. Like the electrical work, that, too, has to be approved by management.

What happens when you move? $1500 + charger can buy a lot of public charging ...

 

[brkaus]

What happens when you move? $1500 + charger can buy a lot of public charging ...

I’m not the OP, but I view charging at home as priceless.

 

[rachelhikes]

What happens when you move? $1500 + charger can buy a lot of public charging ...

The $1500 includes the charger. I think (but I'm not sure) that the charger remains my property and I can take it with me when I leave. That leaves me with a non-recoverable cost of about $1000. It costs about $0.04 more per mile to charge at a SuperCharger than the electricity costs for charging at home on overnight EV rates. So, the break-even point in terms of charging savings vs. cost is about 25,000 miles, which I should hit early in my second year of ownership.* After that, I've recovered my installation costs and am just saving money. Additionally, if I can take advantage of the EV rate time-of-day rates for the rest of my electrical usage, I may be able to squeeze out some additional savings there as well.

* If I can't take the charger with me, then the break-even point is near the end of my second year of use.

 

[rachelhikes]

I’m not the OP, but I view charging at home as priceless.

It is WAY more convenient, no question about it.

 

[NeverFollow]

The plan is to add a line to my parking space, from the building's electrical room,
tapping into the line that runs from my meter to my apartment.

The original idea was to end the line in an outlet, but in the current version it ends at a Tesla wall connector.

4. The line to charge the car would run in a conduit outside the building, behind an already existing conduit.
The new conduit should have minimal/no impact on the building appearance.
The line would terminate in a 240V/20A outlet (probably) at my parking space.

Can you check the value of the main breaker used for your apartment eletrical system.
The breaker should be located just above your electric meter.

This could give you an idea of how much current you could use, considering the appliances that might be running at any time,
such your heater, fridge, electric range oven...

If you are consideing installing a 240V/20A I wonder if you could use your own mobile charger, or find one from e-bay,
instead of using a wall connector, and install a 6-20 Nema plug inside a plugable switch box.

This would certainly lower your cost and also when moving out you will not have to remove your wiring.

 

[NeverFollow]

OP, I noticed this picture from an article, this might be something that you could include into your documentation to your landlord.

Tesla has Supercharger stations all over the map...

 

[adaptabl]

I’m not the OP, but I view charging at home as priceless.

Not just priceless but totally necessary.

 

[davewill]

... The original idea was to end the line in an outlet, but in the current version it ends at a Tesla wall connector. I don't know if the wall charger will simplify or complicate approval by building management. I'll find out, I guess. If management objects to the wall connector, I can see if they'll go for the outlet instead. But, for now, I'm trying to go down the wall charger road. Keeping my fingers crossed! ...

I would think they'd probably like the wall connector better so that there's no opportunity for someone to access the plug.

 

[rachelhikes]

Well, the charger is progressing forward. The apartment management has ok'd the technical part of the installation and is reviewing liability documents from Tesla – Tesla is the company that would do the work. As long as no surprises turn up, I'll be good to go. The complex has decided that it makes more sense for Tesla to work for them directly on the install, and then I will reimburse the apartment management for the work.

They've also now decided that the installation looks much more attractive in terms of price and complexity than they had supposed. They are now thinking they should do more of them. My mission to break down the barriers for electric car ownership, not just for me, but for the whole apartment complex, looks like it is going to work.

 

[cbutters]

Well, the charger is progressing forward. The apartment management has ok'd the technical part of the installation and is reviewing liability documents from Tesla – Tesla is the company that would do the work. As long as no surprises turn up, I'll be good to go. The complex has decided that it makes more sense for Tesla to work for them directly on the install, and then I will reimburse the apartment management for the work.

They've also now decided that the installation looks much more attractive in terms of price and complexity than they had supposed. They are now thinking they should do more of them. My mission to break down the barriers for electric car ownership, not just for me, but for the whole apartment complex, looks like it is going to work.

This is amazing... This is why you don't get frustrated and continue to look for solutions. Great job and I commend your attitude and ability to change things for the better for others as well.

 

[YisSerL]

Well, the charger is progressing forward. The apartment management has ok'd the technical part of the installation and is reviewing liability documents from Tesla – Tesla is the company that would do the work. As long as no surprises turn up, I'll be good to go. The complex has decided that it makes more sense for Tesla to work for them directly on the install, and then I will reimburse the apartment management for the work.

They've also now decided that the installation looks much more attractive in terms of price and complexity than they had supposed. They are now thinking they should do more of them. My mission to break down the barriers for electric car ownership, not just for me, but for the whole apartment complex, looks like it is going to work.

Did you just find an electrician from Tesla's website?
Find an Electrician

I checked and Tesla somehow doesn't offer installation service in CA.

I am looking for a solution myself as well.

 

[rachelhikes]

Did you just find an electrician from Tesla's website?
Find an Electrician

I checked and Tesla somehow doesn't offer installation service in CA.

I am looking for a solution myself as well.

I think I am a local target of convenience. I’m sure the work will be sub-contracted to a non-Tesla electrician. Tesla is definitely motivated to solve the apartment problem. As we’re seeing in my case, installing a single charger looks like it will enable a charger installation process for a couple hundred potential customers. That’s a lot of bang for the buck for Tesla. But they likely need more staff to be able to go after it aggressively.

You could give Tesla a poke about helping, mentioning that you are in an apartment complex, and see if they are able to jump in.

[EDIT - Where are you in your process? Have you talked to management in your complex yet?]

 

[NeverFollow]

You could give Tesla a poke about helping, mentioning that you are in an apartment complex, and see if they are able to jump in.

Who did you contacted and how (phone, e-mail, website chat...)

 

[rachelhikes]

Who did you contacted and how (phone, e-mail, website chat...)

I was contacted by a Tesla rep following this thread. I'm not sure I should publish their contact info here without permission. Why don't you talk more about where you are in the process?

 

[NeverFollow]

I would like to get informe about the type of wires and conduit to use for installing a raceway for an EV plug in my garage.

I got an estimate of $25 a feet for 6 AWG wire using a one-inch Electrical Metallic Conduit (EMT) for a NEMA 14-50 plug.

Since I'm not in hurry, I plan to install all the wiring in advance, which can take at least a full day because of some curbes.
And have the electrician doing only the connection to the main breakers panel.

The raceway length is about 80 ft. So to minimize the cost, I would like to calculate the cost for each of the plugs avaible
for the portable Tesla charger, such as: NEMA 6-15, NEMA 6-20, NEMA 10-30, and NEMA 6-50.

- I think that I can use 12 AWG and 3/4 inch EMT for the NEMA 10-30 instead of 6 AWG and one-inch for the NEMA 14-50.

I beleive that, since the conduit is metallic, I don't need to include an additional wire for the ground?
So, I think that I can skip the NEMA 14-30 and NEMA 14-50 ?

However, I would be interested to find which Romex cable to use for each of the above mentionned NEMA plugs,
and which corresponding EMT conduit to use?

I found various information, such as Wire Types and Sizing but if someone has some experience and recommendations,
I would greatly apreciate receiving any input before starting my project.

Again, I try to optimise cost versus ampacity. I plan to use a NEMA 10-30 instead of NEMA 14-50,
since I don't really need such power, and even though I would not mind using a NEMA 6-20 or NEMA 6-15,
if there is a big cost advantage, since I don't currently own the house where I live.

 

[NeverFollow]

Again, I try to optimise cost versus ampacity. I plan to use a NEMA 10-30 instead of NEMA 14-50,
since I don't really need such power, and even though I would not mind using a NEMA 6-20 or NEMA 6-15,
if there is a big cost advantage, since I don't currently own the house where I live.

I'd like to keep my full installation below $1,000.

My consideraton is that at home, I can get an electricity night rate of $0.12c / kwh, since I can get about 300 miles with 80kWh,
I would spend then about $9 for 300 miles, or $90 for 3,000 miles and about $900 for 30,000 miles.(let say $1,000 for 30,000 miles)

If I use a public charger, I will get an electricity rate of $.24c / kWh,
so basically when charging at home I save about $1,000 for every 30,000 miles compare with charging at a public station.

However, if I was using an ICE, with a range 30 miles a galon and for $4 a gallon, I would have spend about $4,000 for 30,000 miles.

 

[KJD]

The raceway length is about 80 ft. So to minimize the cost, I would like to calculate the cost for each of the plugs avaible
for the portable Tesla charger, such as: NEMA 6-15, NEMA 6-20, NEMA 10-30, and NEMA 6-50.

- I think that I can use 12 AWG and 3/4 inch EMT for the NEMA 10-30 instead of 6 AWG and one-inch for the NEMA 14-50.

I beleive that, since the conduit is metallic, I don't need to include an additional wire for the ground?

You need to talk to your local electrical inspector, but around here a NEMA 10-30 is really frowned upon. They will NOT allow it in new construction.

However, I would be interested to find which Romex cable to use for each of the above mentionned NEMA plugs,
and which corresponding EMT conduit to use?

Romex is generally used for inside walls and the wire is not exposed. Most people use THWN in buried conduit.

If you are trying to keep the cost down, you might look at plastic conduit and THWN copper wire. The inspectors here were fine with plastic. It is much easier to work with than the EMT metal conduit also. The cost difference between 3/4 and 1 inch was trivial, so I used the 1 inch on mine and the wires are easier to pull in the larger conduit.

There are a couple of web pages that go into more detail on this. Good information to read up on. I found some things that I did not know about for sure.

FAQ: Home Tesla charging infrastructure Q&A

Home Charging Wiring Guide | TeslaTap

Good luck on your project.

 

[miimura]

I would like to get informe about the type of wires and conduit to use for installing a raceway for an EV plug in my garage.

I got an estimate of $25 a feet for 6 AWG wire using a one-inch Electrical Metallic Conduit (EMT) for a NEMA 14-50 plug.

Since I'm not in hurry, I plan to install all the wiring in advance, which can take at least a full day because of some curbes.
And have the electrician doing only the connection to the main breakers panel.

The raceway length is about 80 ft. So to minimize the cost, I would like to calculate the cost for each of the plugs avaible
for the portable Tesla charger, such as: NEMA 6-15, NEMA 6-20, NEMA 10-30, and NEMA 6-50.

- I think that I can use 12 AWG and 3/4 inch EMT for the NEMA 10-30 instead of 6 AWG and one-inch for the NEMA 14-50.

I beleive that, since the conduit is metallic, I don't need to include an additional wire for the ground?
So, I think that I can skip the NEMA 14-30 and NEMA 14-50 ?

However, I would be interested to find which Romex cable to use for each of the above mentionned NEMA plugs,
and which corresponding EMT conduit to use?

I found various information, such as Wire Types and Sizing but if someone has some experience and recommendations,
I would greatly apreciate receiving any input before starting my project.

Again, I try to optimise cost versus ampacity. I plan to use a NEMA 10-30 instead of NEMA 14-50,
since I don't really need such power, and even though I would not mind using a NEMA 6-20 or NEMA 6-15,
if there is a big cost advantage, since I don't currently own the house where I live.

NEMA 10 (hot-hot-neutral) outlets are not allowed for new installations because they don't have a ground. NEMA 6-30 is available but not common (hot-hot-ground). NEMA 14-30 (hot-hot-neutral-ground) is the most common for 30 amp sockets. Tesla does have 14-30 adapters.

Having a conductive conduit does not allow you to eliminate the ground conductor.

A 30 amp circuit requires 10 AWG wire. It is even shown at that link you provided.

Romex cannot be left exposed. It must be protected like behind drywall. If you need to run the cable on the surface, you're better off with THHN single conductors in conduit unless most of the run is in a crawl space or something and only the last several feet are on the surface.