Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • The latest TMC Podcast (#14) is now available on YouTube and all major podcast networks. We covered FSD Beta's exciting v11 update, Enhanced Autopilot coming to the U.S. and Canada, and more!

A challenge in FSD: To CRASH gracefully.

Reading another topic I was reminded about the "march of nines".
article
Think overturned cars, debris on the roadway, tornados, road defects, and any other rare but absolutely real occurrence that a driver might encounter. Thus, a vehicle that is 99.999% “safe” crashes once every 100k miles on average.

1 crash in 100k miles is probably better than average human drivers (I admit to a couple of minor fender benders over the years).

But the previous sentence is even more important: the inevitable crash.
I read a post months ago about how to crash causing the least amount of damage and death (could not find it, but did find one about Waymo)

It is a major moral challenge, when an accident is unavoidable, what should the AI do to minimize the damage, or most difficult, cause the least amount of death (or prioritize one over another).

Not unlike the joke about being in burning airplane with 4 passengers, but only 3 parachutes, and not a joke.

Note: this is about next layer below Three Laws of Robotics
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
11,003
10,006
Visalia, CA
...It is a major moral challenge, when an accident is unavoidable, what should the AI do to minimize the damage, or most difficult, cause the least amount of death (or prioritize one over another)...
That kind of intelligence will take a long time from now.

Right now, collision avoidance is still a problem. Waymo is doing pretty good but it's geofenced in its own bubble. Others still suffer collisions.

Tesla's system doesn't choose whether to collide with a cone or a person. when it crashes, it just does without discrimination.

Right now, Waymo doesn't choose whether to collide with a cone or a person either, it just doesn't move in order to avoid collisions with either one as in the case that it got stuck with a traffic cone.

I think once we allow a car to sacrifice someone in order to save some other, it would become an Autonomous Weapon System rather than a collision-avoidance system.
 
I think once we allow a car to sacrifice someone in order to save some other, it would become an Autonomous Weapon System rather than a collision-avoidance system.
It's not about deciding whom to sacrifice, its about choosing the path with least fatality / damage.
Naturally this means assign value to objects in path the car could go and calculating a value ("cost") estimate of each potential path.

Naturally all people will have a very large value compared to anything else, but then the ethics will come up, is everyone's value the same? Is a baby worth the same as the mom? Old person? Young person? Beggar vs President? so on.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
11,003
10,006
Visalia, CA
It's not about deciding whom to sacrifice, its about choosing the path with least fatality / damage.
Naturally this means assign value to objects in path the car could go and calculating a value ("cost") estimate of each potential path.

Naturally all people will have a very large value compared to anything else, but then the ethics will come up, is everyone's value the same? Is a baby worth the same as the mom? Old person? Young person? Beggar vs President? so on.
Here is a simple choice: If you buy Mercedes will save you at the expense of non-Mercedes:

 
  • Helpful
Reactions: MontyFloyd

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top