About time to unveil the D and something else

[KayT]

Wow!

Question comes to mind - I know that some upgrades (such as a second (dual) charger are possible, post-production. Is the auto-pilot hardware going to be a retro-fit option?

 

[brianman]

Does anyone know if the AWD in the D model S is active all the time? The only experience I have with AWD is from a Honda CRV and there was no driver manipulation at all. The car decided when you needed the AWD and turned it on and off accordingly.

Welcome to the forum. My impression is that there is no setting to opt-out of the front motor being "active/available". That said, there might be a fuse that can be pulled or somesuch.

- - - Updated - - -

The fact that it's $50k more than my current Model S

I'm surprised by this. We should probably take it to PMs though.

 

[scaesare]

I think the $14K P85 option is likely for a second hand-wound performance inverter (+10K).

I'm not sure if you are joking, but you are aware that:

1) The "hand wound" thing was a holdover form the earlier Roadster days, and appears to have never been true for the Model S.

2) Inverters aren't "wound" anyway. Motors are what have windings.

 

[brianman]

Question comes to mind - I know that some upgrades (such as a second (dual) charger are possible, post-production. Is the auto-pilot hardware going to be a retro-fit option?

Welcome to the forum! Historically Tesla retrofits range from "expensive" to "crazy expensive you'll need therapy". Usually trade-in or sell+buy is a cheaper path with better results. There are exceptions to this general rule like if you've done aftermarket upgrades (Reus audio, paint armor, etc.) or if you have a Sig which can't be replaced.

 

[dhanson865]

Model S comparison table (bias sort with range, top speed and 0-60 considered)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 265 miles range 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)

Model S comparison table (0-60 sort)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)
P85 265 miles range 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)


Model S comparison table (range sort or top speed sort, same result)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 265 miles range 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)

any way I look at that I'd just discontinue the P85 and go with 5 configurations instead of 6. I'd rather have the S85D than the P85 any day. If they are going to keep the P85 option in the design studio it should probably have a warning label that pops up saying you might want to consider the S85D or P85D instead, we strongly advise you not to get the P85 configuration as it is suboptimal.

And 265 miles range is the only shared range the list has no duplicate range options with the P85 omitted

Model S comparison table (omit the suboptimal P85)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 suboptimal - don't order this
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)

 

[eRandall38]

Model S comparison table (bias sort with range, top speed and 0-60 considered)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 265 miles range 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)


Model S comparison table (range sort or top speed sort, same result)

S60 208 miles range 380 hp 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 376 hp 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 265 miles range 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (odd duck with the lower top speed but better acceleration than the S85D)
P85D 275 miles range 691 hp 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)
S85D 295 miles range 376 hp 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)

any way I look at that I'd just discontinue the P85 and go with 5 configurations instead of 6. I'd rather have the S85D than the P85 any day. If they are going to keep the P85 option in the design studio it should probably have a warning label that pops up saying you might want to consider the S85D or P85D instead, we strongly advise you not to get the P85 configuration as it is suboptimal.

So are the current S85s on the road actually 380 HP?

 

[Eric The Duke]

Welcome to the forum. My impression is that there is no setting to opt-out of the front motor being "active/available". That said, there might be a fuse that can be pulled or somesuch.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm surprised by this. We should probably take it to PMs though.

Thanks. So the AWD won't be active all the time then? The car will decide when it needs it?

 

[GSP]

Where did you get the range numbers for the various configurations? I looked on Tesla's website this morning, but did not find them.

GSP

 

[ckessel]

Where did you get the range numbers for the various configurations? I looked on Tesla's website this morning, but did not find them.

It's shown in the box you click to select the model you want in the order page (click on 60/85/P, then click on the AWD option).

 

[dhanson865]

So are the current S85s on the road actually 380 HP?

Wikipedia says 362 hp for the old S85 so the upcoming S85 gets a better motor I guess.

S85 and P85 old vs new

S85 old 265 miles 362 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 new 265 miles 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph (is the hp change real?)

P85 old 265 miles 416 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph
P85 new 265 miles 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (is the hp change real?)

I don't know if the motor is different but hp doesn't matter if the range, 0-60, and top speed didn't change, as far as I'm concerned you can ignore horse power in these comparisons.


Model S comparison table (omit the suboptimal P85 - see post 1545 for more thoughts on this)

S60 208 miles range 5.9 sec 0-60 120 mph
S60D 225 miles range 5.7 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 265 miles range 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
P85 suboptimal - don't order this
P85D 275 miles range 3.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of acceleration with some loss of range)
S85D 295 miles range 5.2 sec 0-60 155 mph (king of range with no loss of top speed)

 

[scaesare]

Can anyone clarify the change in horse power?

I have an S85 and currently it says on TM Design Center 0-60 5.4 and 380 HP. I think when I purchased mine it was 0-60 5.4 but lower HP. How is that?

I'm gonna guess that Tesla's earlier HP estimates were conservative, and that they were more powerful all along.

I've certainly seen folks posting speeds better than the the officially quoted ones, hence my suspicion that they were sandbagging a bit.

 

[-Xee-]

Does the S60 really have 380 HP?? I thought it was around 302 HP? Or is it a typo on Tesla's official website?

 

[Saghost]

Does anyone know if the AWD in the D model S is active all the time? The only experience I have with AWD is from a Honda CRV and there was no driver manipulation at all. The car decided when you needed the AWD and turned it on and off accordingly.

It's a different paradigm. On the CRV and other similar systems you have a mechanical element that transfers the torque while allowing a speed difference between the axles. This may be a clutch, a viscous coupling, or a limited slip differential depending on the AWD system (or on systems intended for off road use, the axles may be locked together at a fixed ratio in the transfer case.) Many of these systems switch to drive only one drive axle for efficiency, and only go back to AWD when they sense wheels slipping - and it takes those systems time to makes the change.

With the Model S Dual motor cars, both electric motors are permanently geared to their respective drive axles and always spinning when the wheels turn. So from a mechanical standpoint it is always active. However, the computers in charge of the car can always choose to power the front motor, the rear motor, or both. Each axle can spin at a different speed with no issues, so the handling and efficiency reasons for going back to 2WD don't apply.

With the P85D (and possibly the others - it's not clear how they are geared yet,) the expectation is that it'll mostly use the front motor on the freeway to get more range because that motor is geared taller (lower RPMs, less losses.) However, both motors are still spinning all the time, and it would take literally milliseconds for the car to push the main motor to full power if the situation called for it - far less time than it takes you to push the accelerator.

Tesla will presumably program where the torque goes based on the handling they want the car to achieve.
Walter

 

[glhs272]

I don't buy these new numbers... S60 has the same motor as the S85 but the battery can't do it.

 

[brianman]

Thanks. So the AWD won't be active all the time then? The car will decide when it needs it?

I wouldn't phrase it that way. I would say that the car will "do awesome" with the motors in a smart way. That might mean that sometimes it's 1% front and 99% back.

 

[Saghost]

Does the S60 really have 380 HP?? I thought it was around 302 HP? Or is it a typo on Tesla's official website?

Notice the new words: "Motor Power." Also note that the S60 and S85 numbers are the same - but the lighter S60 is significantly slower than the heavier S85. I think that to make sense of what they've done with AWD Tesla has switched the specs to show what the motor/inverter packages are capable of independent of the battery limits.

Hopefully they'll show the battery limits as well in the ordering page soon, because the 0-60 times show they are still limiting the 60 kWh cars' output to something less than what they now show the motors can take - meaning the car doesn't actually have all 380 HP the motor/inverter could have taken with a different battery.
Walter

 

[eRandall38]

Wikipedia says 362 hp for the old S85 so the upcoming S85 gets a better motor I guess.

S85 and P85 old vs new

S85 old 265 miles 362 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph
S85 new 265 miles 380 hp 5.4 sec 0-60 125 mph (is the hp change real?)

P85 old 265 miles 416 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph
P85 new 265 miles 470 hp 4.2 sec 0-60 130 mph (is the hp change real?)

I don't know if the motor is different but hp doesn't matter if the range, 0-60, and top speed didn't change, as far as I'm concerned you can ignore horse power in these comparisons.

Ya this is what I really do not understand. If HP changed, why the same 0-60 times?

 

[glhs272]

Ah, I see. This makes more sense. It now reflects what the motors are capable of. Still, it would be nice to know what the actual performance specs are of the car that is actually going to be built (battery included).

 

[yobigd20]

how is the autopilot mode going to work correctly through construction zones when the lines get all screwed up (or don't exist at all) and lanes suddenly change?

 

[ckessel]

how is the autopilot mode going to work correctly through construction zones when the lines get all screwed up (or don't exist at all) and lanes suddenly change?

Presumably, the driver will have to intervene and hopefully the car would make lots of noise about it when it detects it. Which is why it's autopilot, not autonomous.

Undoubtedly some folks will abuse this horribly and do stupid things like read a book while "driving", but there's not much you can do about that. As long as overall autopilot is safer than without it, society comes out ahead.