yea i'm not sure if that's a web site bug or if that's intentional? you can select tan leather but as soon as you click dual motor it turns black and theres no way of changing the interior colors...
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About time to unveil the D and something else
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yea i'm not sure if that's a web site bug or if that's intentional? you can select tan leather but as soon as you click dual motor it turns black and theres no way of changing the interior colors...
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
ra-san
Member
Didn't take a picture, but did look with my own eyes.
There were no actual P85D's on still display and the ones they had running around you couldn't open the frunk on since they were pretty much continuously on the demo ride loop.
The D they had on display had the D trim levels but didn't actually have the front motor. It still had frunk cubby section, but that was just because it wasn't really a D. The D definitely still has the main part of the frunk, and definitely does not have the frunk cubby/microwave section. This understanding was confirmed with multiple conversations with the engineer and sales person tending the displayed "D"
edit: clarify cubby
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Yea, that's the problem with relying on Darwin award winners, collateral damage. Which is why I'm a pretty big believer in preventative regulations rather than relying on the "market to decide" after people are dead...
hans
P631
When you say no back cubby are you referring to the foot well for the rear facing seats? I think that would have to be on production cars as the jump seats are still an option on D models.
ra-san
Member
Only crappy pics due to the lighting
The seats have much, *much* higher bolsters (both butt and back) and more padding than the current seats, and feel like they support the front of the seating area far better. They are a solid improvement, if you want to be cradled/hugged by the seats vs. just sitting "on" them instead of in them.
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No I meant back cubby inside the frunk, i.e. the "microwave"
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Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Looks as though you have to get the 21's but I'm assuming it'll work with 19's. No?
I didn't see anything on the order page suggesting a brake upgrade, which is the only reason I know of that 19s might not fit.
The logic on the website might not be fully wrung out yet, but it seemed like it would allow an order of 19" winter wheels/tires on a P85D, which is further support for the idea.
Walter
ra-san
Member
I had hoped the new seats would be standard too after running out of current ones, but I'm not so sure that'll happen. I suspect that instead you'll have the newest version of the old seats as the standard option and the new seats as the performance option, so you can get either on future orders at any of the trim levels.
I could see some people preferring the newest "more comfy" version of the existing seats to the sport seats, based on individual preference of sitting in vs. on.
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The dual motor option on the non P85D are all based on two of the smaller motors, same as front motor in the P85D. In addition, the 60 version of the platform is further detuned, "slightly", said the engineer, because of the power limits of the battery, though they are still the same smaller motors.
I asked about timing of the autopilot releases with multiple employees. No timelines and no commitments. No real answers beyond aggressive over the air software updates with the next bits (presumably the ACC functionality at least) by the end of the year. The feeling I got was that everything they demoed (watch the vids) would be in our hands (or out of our hands?) by mid year next year, and they'd push it as fast as they can. Random extra functionality talked about by Elon is more on Elon time
hans
P631
I see. Front trunk. That is as expected.Only crappy pics due to the lighting
View attachment 61150
The seats have much, *much* higher bolsters (both butt and back) and more padding than the current seats, and feel like they support the front of the seating area far better. They are a solid improvement, if you want to be cradled/hugged by the seats vs. just sitting "on" them instead of in them.
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No I meant back cubby inside the trunk, i.e. the "microwave"
Little nitpick...
He said something like "...constantly be at optimal efficiency point for each motor..."
That sounds technically incorrect. I don't think the motors will stay at a specific (most optimal) RPM or have a CVT to manage RPMs.
I think what he meant to say was more along the lines of "power can be applied to the motor that will be more efficient for the conditions".
In other words, constantly adjusting power split to the best motor (of the two) for the job at that time.
To my knowledge, the Design Studio doesn't tell us what color. It could be hot pink (though I suspect not). What it does say is: "Tesla's next generation seat, reengineered for comfort and lateral support."
If you're interested in getting the vehicle and this is an issue for you, I'd start the conversation ASAP with Tesla -- after having saved my configuration for immediate progression to the next stage if you like their response.
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For the record, it's worse than it was for Sigs. For Sigs, you could opt for 19"s (but wouldn't save any money).
ra-san
Member
Others have answered but to summarize and add flavor based on drivetrain engineer talks…
The P+ is entirely replaced by the P85D. It does have (re)tuned suspension, tweaked similar to the P+ but tuned taking into account the different vehicle dynamics of the D. You could tell from talking to them that they've spend considerable time thinking about the specifics and trying out things, not just for the dual motor configs in general, but for the dual sized motor performance version in particular.
He told me he thought they had changed the tires again, but was unsure on what the final thing they landed on was, then we both went and stared at the rear tires blankly for a moment before getting distracted and going down a different path of the conversation
He did say they kept a staggered config, and actually said the rear tires were even wider than the +, which surprised me and makes me wonder if what he meant was just that they were *still* staggered and wider than the front. All this came up when I was asking if they had switched from the PS2s to the PSS's. Unfortunately due to the blank staring, and general excitement level about everything, I didn't come away with a final answer Other items not touched on in Elon's announce, but discussed in passing with employees:
Different modes range/normal/insane (think now called normal/performance/insane) don't feel that much different between first 2, but 1st one does mostly use the front motor while cruising. Power balance is still dynamic in all modes and even in range mode, when you push the go pedal, power shifts and performance happens. Sounded like vehicle dynamics would be "slightly" affected in range mode though, in terms of handling in curves, etc., due to the default bias. I think we'll just have to get them on the road to really feel how much the modes matter. Hate having to choose one and feeling like a spur of the moment need might make me feel like I chose the wrong one, but he assured me the effects were slight. It really seemed like they had put a *lot* of work into vehicle dynamics, and that they expect to continue to make it better via updates. We talked about the stronger regen available, and the improvements to tire wear. There was some discussion of the potential of a software dial for regen limits or even a hardware option for increasing regen beyond the off throttle limit (but that was a pet project vs. something to expect). The just dialing up the limit had limits due to vehicle dynamics leading to a potentially unsafe condition at extreme limits of regen, but it sounded like there is the real possibility to have more control over the regen range/curve than just low/normal at some point, via software update.
The front motor was chosen because it gave the best performance relative to weight based on the fact that under heavy acceleration, weight shifts to the rear and had they used the bigger rear motor in the front too, it would just have been traction limited without really buying you extra acceleration. I mentioned the mythical dual current P85 motor engineering/test S and the sub 3 second 0-60's it supposedly got, but he didn't really have anything to say about that beyond seeming surprised that it'd actually be a performance improvement over the released design, based on traction limits and "safe" power draw limits from the battery. The released P85D set up is power limited but close to the traction limits. The delta in performance between the other D variants and the RWD versions is much smaller (but still there!) due to the 2 smaller motors vs. 1 big 1 small, but the vehicle dynamics gains are still all there and subject to improvement/refinement as they do software updates.
Relevant to P85D -> P85D+, and future proofing in general, I explained I was a Roadster 1.5 owner (and lived through the big changes as the 2 and 2.5 were released) and asked how solid/final the configs and engineering was for the P85D in terms of likely changes over the course of the next couple years. We went into quite a few different aspects of the platform, but bottom line was it sounded like it wasn't likely there would be an even more powerful drivetrain available "soon" and that the design was solid and unlikely to change for a couple years. A lot of effort was spend on "getting it right", at the chassis, drive train, and sensor suite level such that it would be a stable base for the X (though asking/saying anything about the X was strictly off limits) and S through to the Model 3 era. He expected any changes they made to be more about lowering their cost or improving reliability (again to lower their cost of warranty work) vs. new functionality or higher power. No promise new battery packs or tech would or would not be available that would obsolete the current packs, but I definitely got the impression it wouldn't happen in the next year (implication to me therefore is that the X's will not have new battery options in 2015 - though again there was no faster way to shut down a Tesla employee than to ask about the X, "strict orders", etc.)
My bottom line is I expect continued improvements and upgrades in the interior over the course of the next year, but nothing new in the drivetrain. Maybe some additional suspension tweaks, but I think those would tend to be retrofittable at a service center. Definitely expect performance tweaks and improvements to the dual motor intelligence but fully expect it to be via software updates. I suspect but had no confirmation that there will be more paint options coming for S and X, but probably not in the next couple/three months. Certainly not for the first P85D's
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
adiggs
Well-Known Member
This is an important insight. For those that aren't watching closely, we just saw an echo of something like Moore's Law strike the traditional auto manufacturing industry last night. Namely, Tesla took an already incredible car by many measures (but not all, and not for all people), and they made it:
- faster (low 4s to low 3s 0-60 time)
- faster top end (now 155 mph)
- more efficient (slight improvement to overall efficiency at 65 mph due to different gearing, despite the car getting heavier by the amount of 1 motor)
Outside of hybrid technology, where car makers started incorporating regenerative braking, small batteries, and small motors; when was the last time a car improved this much from 1 version to the next? Or maybe a more accurate way to think of it - improved this much over a 2 year period (decent volume shipments in late 2012, initial shipments expected in decent volume in late 2014)?
And none of this happened due to battery chemistry changes - the primary thing that we've all been thinking about as the primary driver of performance and range improvements in the car.
And these are just the easy to measure stuff. How about the idea of all of the control interfaces in the car being digital instead of analog? Think that will prove important to other companies as they try to get auto-pilot and later autonomous driving going? I don't know, but my hypothesis / guess is that digital will prove better / faster / easier / cheaper to work with.
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You sure you aren't going to start plotting now how that Model X next year is yours 'efusco, and how the current Model S becomes your wife's now?
They popped the frunk for me at the demo car last night at the event. The picture below shows there is still the 'microwave' area, but maybe it does not go back as deeply as before? When I asked them where the front motor was, one employee said that he thought it was just a demo car to show the new seats but was not dual motor - this is in spite of the badging and the dashboard clearly saying P85D. I found the employees at the event were much less knowledgeable than people on TMC, as expected. Just curious to see what others think:
The new D edition...
Well i love the new D model from Tesla.
What i don't like is that now my P85 i just bought is old news. I guys we should all be ready for new rollouts every 6 months like smartphones. That's why they sell these cars at malls. LOL
Looks like I'll be on the list for a new one considering i really need something AWD.
It does suck all of us that want to upgrade our "old" cars with the front drive motor and drivetrain won't be able to. i personally think it's possible with a little elbow grease and new software.
Oh but what's a trade-in on a new P85 for a P85D....it's just $120,00+. no biggie.:tongue:
Well i love the new D model from Tesla.
What i don't like is that now my P85 i just bought is old news. I guys we should all be ready for new rollouts every 6 months like smartphones. That's why they sell these cars at malls. LOL
Looks like I'll be on the list for a new one considering i really need something AWD.
It does suck all of us that want to upgrade our "old" cars with the front drive motor and drivetrain won't be able to. i personally think it's possible with a little elbow grease and new software.
Oh but what's a trade-in on a new P85 for a P85D....it's just $120,00+. no biggie.:tongue:
I swore it said @55 last night. In any case those numbers are not certified and Tesla plays loose with the facts (i.e. the normal p85 has 470 HP now but no improvement in 0-60 compared to the supposedly 416 HP of the "old" p85)
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I think that's not an actual AWD model. Looking at the design of the front motor and gearbox I think it would have to occupy most, if not all of that space.
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