Before Tesla, I usually drove BMW, and those features do not come with a base model. When you buy a more expensive car you usually buy driving dynamics, better handling experience and pay extra for convenience features. Since Tesla positions M3 with BMW 3 Series, I would expect the same approach - you get a car with really good driving characteristics (base model) and get convince features for extra $$$
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Adaptive Cruise Control without AP?
- Thread starter slipnslider
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- acc cruise control Model 3
These kinds of feature always trickle from luxury to entry-level luxury cars and then to mainstream cars.
True that it may not be standard on the base model but I doubt BMW is charging $5k for the ACC alone.
EM promised a $35k USD base model and that's what we are getting. Options might be more expensive and/or lumped together to make more profits from those who like to pamper themselves with lots of bells and whistles.
Definitely not going to overdo customization if I do decide on the M3.
True that it may not be standard on the base model but I doubt BMW is charging $5k for the ACC alone.
EM promised a $35k USD base model and that's what we are getting. Options might be more expensive and/or lumped together to make more profits from those who like to pamper themselves with lots of bells and whistles.
Definitely not going to overdo customization if I do decide on the M3.
But Tesla doesn't charge 5k for ACC either, you get a lot of features. Do they cost 5k? I don't know, but that's the current price. Tesla might reduce the price a bit later on, but I think the price would be the same for all models since the hardware and features are the same.
It would be nice if Tesla offered sub-sets of the EA capabilities À la carte…
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Traffic aware cruise control: $1,000
Keep car in lane: $1,000
Change lanes automatically: $1,000
Stop the car before it crashes: $1,500
Self park: $1,500
I wonder if anyone at Tesla thought of treating it as a service? Charge for TACC by the mile, or self parking each time it's invoked.
Menu
Traffic aware cruise control: $1,000
Keep car in lane: $1,000
Change lanes automatically: $1,000
Stop the car before it crashes: $1,500
Self park: $1,500
I wonder if anyone at Tesla thought of treating it as a service? Charge for TACC by the mile, or self parking each time it's invoked.
This actually is included in the base Model, and that's been confirmed.
I believe a Tesla without Enhanced Autopilot will only beep and display the impending crash in the dash, but will not stop on it's own.
Maybe we can get a volunteer to test?
----edit-----
OK, just checked the website and saw this: "including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking, have begun rolling out through over-the-air updates".
That's true. But it's a good strategy to lump these features into EAP and fatten the margins up. Maybe the finance team miscalculated and need to sell above $40k so as not to incur losses / negative contribution margins.
If TACC is that good, maybe many of us will be forced to pay $5k USD for it, especially since most EV drivers will clock lots of miles each day (one main selling point being fuel savings are significant, where I am at).
I'm a model 3 reservationist. Like most of you, I'd like to be able to get ACC at a lower cost, like $1k.
I'm in the market for a new car for my college-age daughter, and have been shopping VW. I can get a near top-of-the-line Passat for 26k, which includes their "Driver Assist" package, including emergency braking, lane assist (stay in lane), blind spot monitoring, and adaptive cruise. Did a test drive, and the features worked pretty well (didn't test the emergency braking). The hands-off lane assist kept me in lane through normal highway-grade turns. And the ACC recognized speed changes ahead and adjusted well. Having said that, the Model S that I test drove did feel more sure and smooth in those functions.
The point, though, is that these features are available on less expensive cars bundled in less expensive packages. Tesla is significantly ahead in implementation and performance of these features, but I think they'll have to make them (or subset of them) more attainable cost-wise to maintain and expand on sales beyond the first 400k wave, where buyers are a little less enthusiast-level, and a little more conscious of features for the dollar (or the k-dollar, as it were)
I'm in the market for a new car for my college-age daughter, and have been shopping VW. I can get a near top-of-the-line Passat for 26k, which includes their "Driver Assist" package, including emergency braking, lane assist (stay in lane), blind spot monitoring, and adaptive cruise. Did a test drive, and the features worked pretty well (didn't test the emergency braking). The hands-off lane assist kept me in lane through normal highway-grade turns. And the ACC recognized speed changes ahead and adjusted well. Having said that, the Model S that I test drove did feel more sure and smooth in those functions.
The point, though, is that these features are available on less expensive cars bundled in less expensive packages. Tesla is significantly ahead in implementation and performance of these features, but I think they'll have to make them (or subset of them) more attainable cost-wise to maintain and expand on sales beyond the first 400k wave, where buyers are a little less enthusiast-level, and a little more conscious of features for the dollar (or the k-dollar, as it were)
As you go up in base cost vs other brands, the price of options go up too. A feature that costs X on a Hyundai costs X+1 on a Honda, X+2 on a VW, X+3 on an Audi, X+4 on a BMW, X+5 on a Tesla, etc.
It's the way it is, and if you don't like it, vote with your wallet and buy something else. I'm not trying to be flippant, but if people don't buy the features, Tesla will cut the price or stop offering them. They do not have to make the car affordable for everyone, and in fact should not IMO.
I want Tesla to make money. I think it loses money on the $35,000 Model 3. To make money it has to get upgrades to the larger battery and EAP. I expect Tesla is thinking that some people who are hesitating about getting EAP may decide to get it because it also has TACC. And that is why TACC is bundled with EAP.
I expect that in a year or so, when it has fulfilled its promise to provide a $35,000 M3 to all reservation holders, it may start bundling extras with the basic M3 and raise the base price.
If you do not take many long trips, the $35,000 M3 is a great car even without TACC. And if you can get it soon enough to get the $7,500 tax credit, it is a steal.
I expect that in a year or so, when it has fulfilled its promise to provide a $35,000 M3 to all reservation holders, it may start bundling extras with the basic M3 and raise the base price.
If you do not take many long trips, the $35,000 M3 is a great car even without TACC. And if you can get it soon enough to get the $7,500 tax credit, it is a steal.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
There's no evidence that this is the case. When you consider the marginal cost of the Model S is around $30k, the Model 3 is likely much lower and doesn't have as high of labor costs.
I found the source for this. I also found this explanation of marginal cost:
Marginal cost represents the cost to produce one additional unit of something. Basically, if you only count the raw materials, electricity, and manual labor, that's the marginal cost. It doesn't count for the multi-million dollar robots that were needed to create the assembly line. It doesn't count any of the hundreds of millions in research and development. It doesn't count any of the millions in software design to keep the systems updated. It doesn't count the cost of shipping the unit to the destination. It doesn't count the cost of establishing and running thousands of showrooms and service centers. It doesn't count the cost of running a global e-commerce website. It doesn't count the capital expenses involved with expanding the supercharger network. It doesn't count the cost of maintaining a cellular link to every vehicle Tesla has made so that they can upload/download data.
In short, start up costs and overhead are not included in marginal cost.
My guess is that it will take a good while for Tesla to amortize the start up costs and be able to make money on a $35,000 Model 3. If battery costs drop it may happen sooner.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Of course, hence the term marginal cost.
On top of marginal cost you have your initial investment plus labor costs, etc... if all of a sudden your labor and material costs are reduced then you can sell a cheaper car and still maintain profit margins.
The source is an interview with Tom Mueller the CTO of SpaceX when describing a conversation with Elon. You might be able to still find a copy of the video somewhere. Everything is blocked from my work.
"$30,000 is the marginal cost to produce a Model S" SpaceX CTO Tom Mueller says Elon has told him in conversation [Starts at 6:50] • r/teslamotors
but yes... initially the first 6 months of 2018 are still going to be paying for this initial stuff. Elon and others are saying they are confident they will hit the desired margins in the middle of 2018.
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