Advertised vs Practical Range

[Hank101]

Is the advertised range for the 3 LR based on a full battery to complete discharge (100-0%)?

If so, what would be an "average conditions" estimate for a "center cut" charge use (recommended max-min charge/discharge)?

Thanks,

 

[Sandiegodoug]

In our x, we charge to 90% and don’t let it go below 15%. My 3 will be here in a couple of weeks and has a very similar range, will do same. Charge to 285, recharge at 50.

 

[Saghost]

The advertised range isn't really the manufacturer's choice these days - they have to follow EPA procedures and report EPA test range (though they do have the option to report something less than the full test result if they choose, which Tesla has actually done sometimes.)

The EPA test is a combined cycle average and averages the range from the different modes available as well - which is why Nissan took away the 80% charge option on the Leaf, contributing to their degradation problems. Somehow Tesla's slider bypassed that rule, though, and the Bolt's hilltop reserve mode appears to be an exception as well.

So yes, the 3's EPA rating is based on 100%-0% on a fresh pack, but I'm not sure how to answer the rest of the question. You could choose to never charge over 80% and never go below 20% and expect to see ~60% of the EPA range. You could choose 85 and 15 or 90 and 10 instead, with obvious impacts.

Tesla isn't using the whole nominal rated capacity of the cells, and their official position is that doing 100% cycles periodically for roadtrips won't have a significant impact on degradation.

My approach has been to charge to 80% except for long trips - and I've never had any concerns or been close to the bottom unless I went out of town.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Is the advertised range for the 3 LR based on a full battery to complete discharge (100-0%)?

If so, what would be an "average conditions" estimate for a "center cut" charge use (recommended max-min charge/discharge)?

Thanks,

Yes.

310 miles.

 

[David99]

@Saghost explained it well.

Based on my 4 years experience with my Tesla I'd say, don't overthink it. Charging to 100% every day is not recommended. Driving the battery down to near zero % is also not so good. So as long as you stay away from both extreme ends you are fine. If you need 100% or need to drive it down to zero, don't worry, it's fine. Just don't do it on a daily bases.

There is a big survey about Tesla battery degradation. It showed that it makes little difference in terms of battery aging weather you charge to 90%, 80% or 70% daily. Technically it would be a little better to charge to only 70% instead of 90% but in the real world the difference turned out to be negligible.

One real world tip I learned: when the battery is low, drive normal or gentle. Don't push it hard, don't use full power. Your battery will thank you for it with a long life

 

[Hank101]

Thanks to all for very informative replies. Just trying to determine a "typical" daily range while taking into consideration battery life - which seems a little subjective.

 

[Reciprocity]

The one key thing to remember. You can charge to 100% anytime you need it, even if that's everyday. They key thing is to time it so you leave as soon after the charge is complete as possible. This is critical. Don't let your car sit at 100% or near 0% for any period of time longer then an hour or so. The things that lead to battery degradation are fast charging in extreme temps or very often. Letting your battery run down to near 0 and leaving it one of the states for to Long.

The battery management system does a great job of protecting the battery so as long as you don't let it sit at 100% to long or get to low.. You will do nominal degradation that is barely measurable vs those who do 20-70% only every day. In fact, it's probably best to actually drive the vehicle fairly consistently because sitting for several days and weeks is probably worse then a regular cycle every couple of days.

 

[david_42]

There's a copy of the EPA certification somewhere in the forum, which shows an actual range of 334 miles, so at 310 miles, there's already a slight pad.

 

[Polly Wog]

I've had my Model S 85 for nearly 4 years, and have about 47,000 miles on it. I always charge (and always have) to 90% or more, usually charging to 100% about once a month. My original range was 265 miles at 100%. Now I get 263. If the "3" is anything like the Model S, then just charge to 90% unless you need more. If you regularly charge to less than 90%, the calibration may get off and report that you have fewer miles of range than you really have. As people like to say, YMMV. I'm basing this off of my personal experience.

 

[SmartElectric]

This is critical. Don't let your car sit at 100% or near 0% for any period of time longer then an hour or so. The things that lead to battery degradation are fast charging in extreme temps or very often.

Charging to 100% and letting car sit for many many hours has not show to cause degradation in our 2013 S85. We routinely, almost every weekend charge to 100% and rarely do we drive immediately after 100% charge, most of the time it's 5 or 10 hours before we leave.

We charge daily to 90% and always charge when possible if the car is under 30%.

We have 97+% original range after 5 years and 110,000 km.

I've seen no evidence in our original "A" pack Model S that there is any concern on 100% charging the night before a trip. We do not over think our charging. If we are taking a 200 km + trip, we always charge to 100% the night before.

That said, agree that leaving car near 0% is asking for trouble. I have never taken our S below 7%.

 

[anicolao]

Is the advertised range for the 3 LR based on a full battery to complete discharge (100-0%)?

In my experience the weather and incline will have a far greater effect on your range than whether you charge to 80, 90, or 100%. The Model 3 will be different of course, but in a Model X you can expect that:

1- if you drive carefully in fine weather, you can get close to or sometimes better than the rated range
2- if you enjoy driving, you can expect to need 20-30% more range than your trip distance (ie. 130 range to go 100 units)
3- if it's winter and you live somewhere with seasons, you can expect to need 60% more range (160 to go 100)
4- if it's winter storm weather plan on 70-80% more range than usual, or ensure you have a charge stop en route (180 to go 100)

So topping off that last bit of battery -- while it can help -- pales by comparison to cold weather or inclines. Your own driving habits make a huge impact, too.

 

[jjh1234]

There's a copy of the EPA certification somewhere in the forum, which shows an actual range of 334 miles, so at 310 miles, there's already a slight pad.

I guess my question is: are there any owners regularly seeing closer to 334 vs 310 miles out of a full charge?

 

[sakimano]

There is a big survey about Tesla battery degradation.

link?

 

[Moderatefan]

I guess my question is: are there any owners regularly seeing closer to 334 vs 310 miles out of a full charge?

Seems nobody would do a 100% range if recommendation is to keep 10% reserve on each end. Only You You is known to have run his M3 into 0%, but that was in extreme cold, so he wouldn't get nice numbers. Also, it seems the consensus is that 334 miles is for aero wheels, which give extra 5-10%, so dont count on it with 19" sport wheels.

 

[gregincal]

Thanks to all for very informative replies. Just trying to determine a "typical" daily range while taking into consideration battery life - which seems a little subjective.

Let's put it this way, it's going to be over 200 miles. There aren't that many people who need more than that for a typical daily range.

 

[gregincal]

Seems nobody would do a 100% range if recommendation is to keep 10% reserve on each end. Only You You is known to have run his M3 into 0%, but that was in extreme cold, so he wouldn't get nice numbers. Also, it seems the consensus is that 334 miles is for aero wheels, which give extra 5-10%, so dont count on it with 19" sport wheels.

People confuse what you should do regularly with what you can do when you need range all the time. If you are going on a road trip, using everything from 100% to 0% is just fine (although most people don't want to cut it too fine on going to 0%).

 

[Stoneymonster]

We are seeing much much closer to the advertised range (or better) on our 3 than we ever got on our S. This is for nominal California temperatures 50-70 degrees. Mixed highway/suburban driving. With the S, I always subtract 15-20% to be comfortable. The 3 seems to be right on.

 

[Hank101]

In my experience the weather and incline will have a far greater effect on your range than whether you charge to 80, 90, or 100%. The Model 3 will be different of course, but in a Model X you can expect that:

1- if you drive carefully in fine weather, you can get close to or sometimes better than the rated range
2- if you enjoy driving, you can expect to need 20-30% more range than your trip distance (ie. 130 range to go 100 units)
3- if it's winter and you live somewhere with seasons, you can expect to need 60% more range (160 to go 100)
4- if it's winter storm weather plan on 70-80% more range than usual, or ensure you have a charge stop en route (180 to go 100)

So topping off that last bit of battery -- while it can help -- pales by comparison to cold weather or inclines. Your own driving habits make a huge impact, too.

So, if we use 310 as a typical range (assume this is 90%-10% charge cut), then can we assume the following range for the above conditions?

1) 310 mi
2) 238 mi
3) 194 mi
4) 172 mi

 

[Moderatefan]

People confuse what you should do regularly with what you can do when you need range all the time. If you are going on a road trip, using everything from 100% to 0% is just fine (although most people don't want to cut it too fine on going to 0%).

I don't confuse personally. Re: 0 - besides the risk of being stuck, there's also manual: "Discharging the Battery to 0% may permanently damage the Battery. "

 

[anicolao]

1) 310 mi
2) 238 mi
3) 194 mi
4) 172 mi

Yes, that would match my experience in Model X. Of course the Model 3 is a different car and may do better or worse, but as a rough guide I'd guess this is accurate. I would be very hesitant to put yourself in bucket #1, so I think it'd be reasonable to plan trips around 220mi segments, allowing some breathing room. The SCs also charge much faster in the middle of the battery so running down to 0 will cost a lot of time at the SC.