Advice for new FSD Beta drivers?

[gglockner]

I also got the beta earlier this month. I find its driving is borderline terrifying.

First, on my 2022 Model X, every time FSD warns me about paying attention, I have both hands on the yoke. I'm looking out the windshield. Seriously, how much more attention do I need?

FFS, do you know the number of times I have to stop FSD from plowing into a bike lane or hitting a construction sign? FSD whiplash is taking all the patience my wife can muster. She probably wishes I wouldn't be Tesla's beta tester, let alone that we paid $10K for the privilege. I would love to find a way to assign warnings to FSD, not the other way around. I sure hope that Tesla gets reports each time I override FSD, which I estimate is about every 2-3 miles of driving on city streets.

At this point, I have to babysit FSD more than when my son first got his learner's permit.

And don't get me started on auto parking. I think it recognizes maybe 10% of parking spaces, and when it does, it's so slow that other drivers are frustrated with waiting.

The one positive I can say is that the older freeway autopilot feature works very, very well. Lane changes are smooth and easy - better than I can do myself, and I have zero accidents over 35+ years of driving.

 

[Dewg]

I did try to warn people that the Beta is not the experience many people think it will be. It's rough around the edges, and in some cases terrifying. But I think many people still wanted it for whatever reason (FOMO?), and are now regretting it.

 

[mtbwalt]

You didn’t pay $10k for FSD beta. You paid $10k for FSD. Beta is a voluntary program for you to help identify problems with upcoming versions.

I don’t activate FSD beta on drives where I have passengers unless it is really simple highway stuff.

You should view the beta as experimental test software. If you are uncomfortable using it, don’t. It is 100% voluntary.

 

[legendsk]

Not my first rodeo. We farmed with horses, rode them, pulled wagons, buggies, hay racks, etc. So by age 3 or 4 was comfortable with them and knew how to drive them - although I don't remember much about the learning process. We got a tractor when I was 5 and I learned to drive that sitting on dad's lap. It had individual rear wheel brakes that dad used to make adjustments in my steering.

I have taught lots of folks to drive, children, friends, grandchildren, but my first student was very difficult. I was in high school and lived next door to a blacksmith shop. Blacksmith was a nice old guy who retired when he was about 80 and bought a 1947 Plymouth, manual transmission, (3 on the tree). Coordinating the accelerator, brake and clutch to get going was VERY difficult for him and took a long time. He never did get the hang of shifting through the gears and finally just settled for driving only in first gear. But he took the back roads to town and never had an accident and drove around for years, long after I left and went to collage.

I'm here to tell you, driving a Tesla with Driver Assist features, Autopilot, FSD (Beta), is very much like teaching a beginner to drive. You are in charge and responsible for the outcomes. The car must learn hazard recognition and how to safely react to perceived hazards. The high priority given to not crashing has made the programming of the car rather paranoid. The famous Richard Nixon quote, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!", comes to mind. As the teacher, you have to gently and patiently correct the student's mistakes, while ensuring that people and property are not injured and at the same time give the student as much latitude as possible to make mistakes and learn from them. Don't reinforce their fear, when you are finished with their training, they should be confident and happy drivers. Remember, there is little learning value in doing something correctly, you learn from the mistakes, but that's pointless, unless you survive them.

So relax, enjoy the ride and make each trip a stress free learning experience for both you and the car.

 

[gglockner]

The high priority given to not crashing has made the programming of the car rather paranoid.

If only that were true. I would be much more comfortable if FSD was merely tentative, like I see with autopark. I'm far more concerned that FSD frequently attempts dangerous moves, like driving into a bike lane, a curb or a road construction sign.

 

[gglockner]

I'm far more concerned that FSD frequently attempts dangerous moves, like driving into a bike lane, a curb or a road construction sign.

Example: my errand today on city streets:

1. FSD attempted to turn at a T-intersection and failed to notice a car coming around a corner. I hit the brakes to abort FSD.
2. FSD attempted to switch to the L lane on a 4-lane road when it had an upcoming R turn. Had to abort.

There was a 3rd case that I don't remember exactly, but it was something with a left turn lane.

Bottom line: I aborted FSD 3 times on a 9 mile roundtrip. At least one of these would have led to an accident. Yet somehow I'm the one who gets scolded for not paying attention.

 

[KArnold]

At least one of these would have led to an accident. Yet somehow I'm the one who gets scolded for not paying attention

As it should be.

 

[gglockner]

As it should be.

As I said earlier, FSD thinks I’m not paying attention when I’ve got both hands on the wheel and looking straight forward. So, it’s wrong about my attention, just like it’s wrong about plowing into the bike lane, driving into traffic, etc.

Now, freeway autopilot is impressively good. I assumed FSD was as good as autopilot, but I was wrong.

I’ve worked most of my career for enterprise software vendors. I spent nearly a decade working in Silicon Valley. I know what beta software is supposed to be. FSD isn’t a beta product.

 

[mcirish]

As I said earlier, FSD thinks I’m not paying attention when I’ve got both hands on the wheel and looking straight forward. So, it’s wrong about my attention, just like it’s wrong about plowing into the bike lane, driving into traffic, etc.

Now, freeway autopilot is impressively good. I assumed FSD was as good as autopilot, but I was wrong.

I’ve worked most of my career for enterprise software vendors. I spent nearly a decade working in Silicon Valley. I know what beta software is supposed to be. FSD isn’t a beta product.

News flash: FSDBeta is not reliable enough for general release. You had to beg to get early access. If you weren't ready to accept the risks and constructively report near-misses then you probably should opt out of the program. Many of us experience the same issues and handle it easily. We are prepared. We don't get scared. We don't blame the car. We don't blame Elon. We just remain vigilant and manage our expectations well. The job is not for everyone.

 

[mcirish]

I also got the beta earlier this month. I find its driving is borderline terrifying.

First, on my 2022 Model X, every time FSD warns me about paying attention, I have both hands on the yoke. I'm looking out the windshield. Seriously, how much more attention do I need?

FFS, do you know the number of times I have to stop FSD from plowing into a bike lane or hitting a construction sign? FSD whiplash is taking all the patience my wife can muster. She probably wishes I wouldn't be Tesla's beta tester, let alone that we paid $10K for the privilege. I would love to find a way to assign warnings to FSD, not the other way around. I sure hope that Tesla gets reports each time I override FSD, which I estimate is about every 2-3 miles of driving on city streets.

At this point, I have to babysit FSD more than when my son first got his learner's permit.

And don't get me started on auto parking. I think it recognizes maybe 10% of parking spaces, and when it does, it's so slow that other drivers are frustrated with waiting.

The one positive I can say is that the older freeway autopilot feature works very, very well. Lane changes are smooth and easy - better than I can do myself, and I have zero accidents over 35+ years of driving.

do you know the number of times I have to stop FSD from plowing into a bike lane or hitting a construction sign?

If it happens more than twice and you've reported it, then you should pre-anticipate/prevent future failures from happening. Part of the job is learning to recognize where not to use it.

 

[mcirish]

Bottom line: I aborted FSD 3 times on a 9 mile roundtrip. At least one of these would have led to an accident. Yet somehow I'm the one who gets scolded for not paying attention.

You are expected to intervene early and not play the game of "let's see how it handles this situation". If you've got an active warning, disengage immediately. Letting things play out is a big no-no.

 

[Hoss2626]

As I said earlier, FSD thinks I’m not paying attention when I’ve got both hands on the wheel and looking straight forward. So, it’s wrong about my attention, just like it’s wrong about plowing into the bike lane, driving into traffic, etc.

Now, freeway autopilot is impressively good. I assumed FSD was as good as autopilot, but I was wrong.

I’ve worked most of my career for enterprise software vendors. I spent nearly a decade working in Silicon Valley. I know what beta software is supposed to be. FSD isn’t a beta product.

I am not getting any pay attention warnings on my model Y, and I look around a fair bit. It seems like this is individual to the vehicle on how much you get scolded.

Now, I have had the car try to go when I thought it was too close and I hit the brake. I've also had to correct the wrong lane OFTEN (most of the time, to be honest. I almost feel like it is a bug!)

 

[mtbwalt]

I have only gotten one pay attention flash up warning since the beta started and I deserved it - grabbed my phone for a sec to look at something on waze in a straightaway without vehicles around me. Sounds like it is vehicle dependent.

 

[vookenmeister@]

apologies if this is slightly unrelated but have been unable to confirm. new to Model Y FSD beta. I have been clicking in the camera icon upper left corner when FSD behaves oddly. it doesn't acknowledge my clicks or respond or anything. is that normal ? I want to help it learn but I fear I am clicking on the wrong icon or something else.

Thanks for all the earlier tips. read the whole thread. very helpful

 

[Dewg]

apologies if this is slightly unrelated but have been unable to confirm. new to Model Y FSD beta. I have been clicking in the camera icon upper left corner when FSD behaves oddly. it doesn't acknowledge my clicks or respond or anything. is that normal ? I want to help it learn but I fear I am clicking on the wrong icon or something else.

Thanks for all the earlier tips. read the whole thread. very helpful

When you touch the camera icon at the top of the map screen you should see a little notice at the bottom of your left-hand visualization that says a clip was saved. That notice is only on-screen for ~2 seconds, so next time you press the camera icon, glance down in the lower left corner of your screen to see if the notice appears.

 

[hellocar]

One more: take a break if it’s getting irritating, and drive a few days manually. I had gotten into the habit of using FSD 100% of the time other than disengagements, and had forgotten how much I enjoyed driving my model 3 myself.

 

[dramsey]

One of the most frustrating things about FSD beta is that the car doesn't learn. I understand why this is so (probably), but it's still annoying to have the car make the same stupid mistakes at a given location (like being in the far left lane and needing to make a right-hand turn, and abruptly diving over to the right to do so, or missing the turn if traffic won't allow) over and over again, with no way to correct its behavior. Aside from tapping the camera icon (I assume the video clips must be reviewed by a person to figure out what the car was doing that prompted the driver to report it), is Tesla getting any data from our FSD experiences at all?

 

[2101Guy]

Example: my errand today on city streets:

1. FSD attempted to turn at a T-intersection and failed to notice a car coming around a corner. I hit the brakes to abort FSD.
2. FSD attempted to switch to the L lane on a 4-lane road when it had an upcoming R turn. Had to abort.

There was a 3rd case that I don't remember exactly, but it was something with a left turn lane.

Bottom line: I aborted FSD 3 times on a 9 mile roundtrip. At least one of these would have led to an accident. Yet somehow I'm the one who gets scolded for not paying attention.

This might explain why some (not all) sources claim that Tesla's are safer with AP/FSD on: Drivers are 100% paying more attention and not lulled into a relaxed state when AP or FSD is on. Why? Some of the reasons are in your post...

 

[Daniel in SD]

This might explain why some (not all) sources claim that Tesla's are safer with AP/FSD on: Drivers are 100% paying more attention and not lulled into a relaxed state when AP or FSD is on. Why? Some of the reasons are in your post...

Modern version of this old thought experiment (the Tullock Spike).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Modern version of this old thought experiment (the Tullock Spike).
View attachment 819242

That being said I think it has generally been shown that risk compensation does not offset the benefits of these other safety features. It’s always been an issue that has been brought up in connection to legislating safety requirements.

I think FSD is potentially a bit different in that regard though. As a true driver aid I think it would likely be net beneficial but that is not how it is being implemented at the moment. The current state of FSD might be pretty safe though, lol.