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All discussion of Nio Motors
- Thread starter Nb1277
- Start date
The biggest auto market in the world being the US will not give Nio any love unless it's priced 50% cheaper than well established brands. It's kind of the case with TVs in which the Chinese brands are heavily discounted, same with phones. But unlike those, cars are somewhat of a status symbol..so think about which Chinese branded product shows off a person's status. I can't think of any.
This will be the problem going forward for the rest of the world. It's also kind of a problem in China as Audi, Mercedes and BMW are status cars. Tesla is joining the ranks as being reported by my dad who follow Chinese news closely as we have family there. Remember that premium Chinese branded Ice car that took over China because of the support of the Chinese government which resulted in shrinking market share of Bmw, Mercedes, and Audi? Yeah me neither.
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that has been my thought as well. I just don’t see them being a huge worldwide player. I’ve been wrong before. Tesla has become a status symbol not only in the US, but around the world. I think they will have a good home market, but will be slow to be adopted abroad.
NIO - Ready for Tomorrow, NIO's First Autonomous Driving Sedan to be Unveiled on NIO Day
Unveiling the new Nio sedan with autonomous driving (do I see a Lidar sensor it that teaser picture??) and a 150 kWh battery, could be fun.
Nio is already advertising in Norway on Linked-In for its business to expand this year to Europe.
If or when USA is planned, has to be seen.
Unveiling the new Nio sedan with autonomous driving (do I see a Lidar sensor it that teaser picture??) and a 150 kWh battery, could be fun.
Nio is already advertising in Norway on Linked-In for its business to expand this year to Europe.
If or when USA is planned, has to be seen.
WSJ had an interesting video that focuses mostly on NIO and their battery swap technology. Kind of interesting, this is something that seems to set them apart in the EV world where you can buy the car without the battery and then get swaps on a subscription service. You should be able to watch the video for free.
Tesla vs. NIO: Battle for the World’s Largest EV Market
Tesla vs. NIO: Battle for the World’s Largest EV Market
Doggydogworld
Active Member
As the video mentions, Nio (plus others like FAW, SAIC, Dongfeng, CATL, BAIC, Chang'an, etc.) are defining swap standards. Swap has some advantages in dense Chinese cities where few have dedicated overnight charging spots. Swap stations are faster and need less real estate than DCFC.
The swap business model has challenges. The only large scale attempt before Nio, Project Better Place, quickly fell apart. China's gov't is supporting swap, though. Sometimes that's all that matters.
China and Europe are the only EV markets which matter. Together they represent ~85% of global EV sales. The US EV market is a very distant 3rd and not really growing. Tesla is the only OEM making a serious effort to sell EVs in the US, and even Tesla has been stuck in a ~200k/year niche with declining ASPs the past three years.
Oh IC, so Tesla is manufacturing in other countries so they can ramp down Fremont. And building a brand new Texas Terrafactor for shits and giggles since demand is stuck.
At a $95B market cap, now is the time to get out of Nio
It will be highly ironic if the price shoots up based on their proposed sedan, yet Tesla collapsed when the Model Y was announced in March 2019 (from a post split price of $60 to $35). That would suggest FOMO ignorance & a massive changing of investment psyche
(FYI: My Nio shares are up over 250% from August)
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I watched the presentation yesterday. It was super strange, maybe that’s what sells in China, but for me it felt strange. So much random stories, music and then random features nobody asked for. Cool sounding technical names plenty. Then they crammed in every new technology standard there is, that was pretty impressive. Then they went totally overboard with 11 8MP cameras, 8gb/s datastream(not sure about the exact prefix) and a super chip with 7x compute than Tesla. Like any of these figures somehow would imply a well working system. It’s not like Tesla are unaware that there are higher resolution sensors out there.
Then the Solid State Battery, the numbers where impressive enough, but to be honest sounded very vaporwary. Q4 2022 so they have some time to finish inventing it. And zero talk about costs and scale, the most relevant aspects.
Maybe the Chinese government won’t let them fail and they can just add expensive stuff to the car and sell it for a loss for years before they need to turn a profit. And maybe they will reach Uber like scale with Uber like losses and everyone will be okay with that as FSD, robotaxi, entertainment etc at some point will become worth a lot.
But as long as they are making electric cars I wish them the best. And I will consider investing in them. But it sure feels strange...
Then the Solid State Battery, the numbers where impressive enough, but to be honest sounded very vaporwary. Q4 2022 so they have some time to finish inventing it. And zero talk about costs and scale, the most relevant aspects.
Maybe the Chinese government won’t let them fail and they can just add expensive stuff to the car and sell it for a loss for years before they need to turn a profit. And maybe they will reach Uber like scale with Uber like losses and everyone will be okay with that as FSD, robotaxi, entertainment etc at some point will become worth a lot.
But as long as they are making electric cars I wish them the best. And I will consider investing in them. But it sure feels strange...
Hmmm ... came from the investor thread here to get more insight into the legitimacy of the stuff presented on nio Day, unfortunately the bigger insight were in the investor thread where people realized that the fsd tech and the battery are of the shelve components, so not really impressive correct?
mltv
Member
I thought the Solid State was vaporware also. There are pricing to 70kwh, 100kwh, but there is no price for the 150kwh. This
explain more about that but it really confuse me even more. All it means to me is they release this for the stats just like all other tech they cram into this car to outdo Tesla (in stats). The battery (150kwh) may happen but it will not be the tech or the price anyone want to buy.
Maybe their own information is also good to read carefully
News Releases | NIO Inc.
The company just started to make real numbers of cars last year. Production ramped up last month increased from ~5000 to ~7000 a month in December 2020.
The best selling model is the new EC6, the Company’s 5-seater premium electric coupe SUV. It has been launched last september.
It will be interesting to see how much of the pace can be hold on during the first quarter. This because some people claimed massive order cancellings of EC6 after Tesla anounced the Model Y pricing. Personally I don't think it won't have that much of an impact.
We have to realize China is a massive country with great growth potential.
Their joint venture factory with JAC has a maximum production capacity of 300.000 cars per year so there is much more growth possible.
News Releases | NIO Inc.
The company just started to make real numbers of cars last year. Production ramped up last month increased from ~5000 to ~7000 a month in December 2020.
The best selling model is the new EC6, the Company’s 5-seater premium electric coupe SUV. It has been launched last september.
It will be interesting to see how much of the pace can be hold on during the first quarter. This because some people claimed massive order cancellings of EC6 after Tesla anounced the Model Y pricing. Personally I don't think it won't have that much of an impact.
We have to realize China is a massive country with great growth potential.
Their joint venture factory with JAC has a maximum production capacity of 300.000 cars per year so there is much more growth possible.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I wouldn't touch NIO with a 10ft poll at this point.
I have no doubt that "Robinhood investors" will provide ample opportunity to snag some of the cash that will soon depart from their accounts, however.
I am still struggling to see what tangible assets NIO actually owns.
GM: We are 20% vertical integrated.
Nio: Hold my beer
Nio is not focusing on improving margins if they have zero control of any of the technology. Batteries (including solid state): CATL, FSD computer: Nvidia, Assembly Plant: Jac Motors. Charging/Swapping Stations: State Grid EV Service. Still trying to figure out what asset NIO owns beside a business plan and some schematics. Everyone is taking a cut so where's NIO's margins? I see a lot of other companies who are going to be making money OFF NIO.
So how this company is suppose to give me "not a car company" margins to deserve such valuation?
GM: We are 20% vertical integrated.
Nio: Hold my beer
Nio is not focusing on improving margins if they have zero control of any of the technology. Batteries (including solid state): CATL, FSD computer: Nvidia, Assembly Plant: Jac Motors. Charging/Swapping Stations: State Grid EV Service. Still trying to figure out what asset NIO owns beside a business plan and some schematics. Everyone is taking a cut so where's NIO's margins? I see a lot of other companies who are going to be making money OFF NIO.
So how this company is suppose to give me "not a car company" margins to deserve such valuation?
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Whatever the Chinese government says they do?
In all seriousness, they are a government sponsored/supported company, and China won't let them fail because they want to be in that market in the future.
If you believe the financials, they say they had 14.5% margin on their cars in Q3:
https://ir.nio.com/static-files/39d3112f-3cb4-4ed5-aade-b040b368719a
Currently their gm is ~14.5%. I am wondering how they will get to 40% when Nvidia will charge them almost 10k for that FSD chip in the future.
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