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An honest review of the yoke
- Thread starter Bub.com
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- yoke steering
Yes, but... I have worked for 2 car manufacturers in corporate roles. One was Japanese (as an engineer, I started there in warranty adjudication when it was over the dealer's head so to speak) and the other a very prestigious European brand. While people like to cite Magnuson-Moss act the manufacturer can make it hell for you and basically has unlimited resources to make your life hell even if you are right.
Even really knowing the ins and outs of the system, I still had a VERY uphill climb on my own vehicle when I had a warranty issue with another prestigious Euro car company a long time ago. They claimed I was modifying the car and said the issue was a direct result of my mods. The car would throw CELs randomly and sometimes shut down the car. Imagine having 3 young kids in the car, going down the freeway in sub 0F temps and the cars says pullover and turn me off immediately. That is what I was dealing with.
Took me 9 month of pulling every lever I could to get this resolved on a brand new car with less than 5k miles. That was from a car company I had spent 500k with in the previous 5 years (that was a good chunk of money back then). I was a very loyal customer and they were known for good service. imagine how Tesla would be when they basically don't give a crap about you. I ultimately had to escalate it to the state's attorney general to get it resolved. In the end they were forced to buy back the car. That was 20 years ago and I've never bought another one of their products since.
I could see Tesla making it hell for you if you did swap out the stalks on the S with their own items, even if somewhere down the road where they had it written into the codebase. They could claim it was only for those later model years and not for retrofit if you have some issue. So if I do go an aftermarket wheel I am going in eyes wide open to the risks as should everyone.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
I haven't had that experience with tesla. In fact every service advisor I've brought my cars to have been nothing but complimentary about my mods and helpful with any complaint I've had.
I'm assuming you had an ECU or piggyback tune on your previous car throwing the CEL's. Can't imagine any other scenario with what you described. It certainly wasn't lowering links or a different steering wheel, right?
Have you personally had a warranty problem with a Tesla?
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
The truth... thanks for sharing your real-world experience. Auto companies can make things very difficult for cars with any modifications.
As the number of cars grows that Tesla has produced they have adopted a less than customer-friendly attitude with service and support.
My car was totally stock, not a single mod to it. That is what made it so infuriating for me. They didn't believe me. I had the car in the shop 8 times in 2 months for the same issue. Every time they claimed it was a mod I did that was causing the issue. The assumption was some sort of piggy back tune or ECU flash/swap. The final straw was when I got the car back from the dealer on the 9th time, and I didn't even take it off the lot and it had CEL issue yet again.
Only then did the senior leadership at the manufacturer take it seriously. By then I had already escalated it through BBB, the dealer, regional zone rep, etc. The only one who didn't tell me to pound sound was my dealer. Apparently because I was a member of a local car club that had a reputation for modding their cars, I was guilty by association.
When it had the CEL and I hadn't even driven it off the lot, and that had thoroughly inspected to car for any trace of mods the last several times, there was no way they could say it was me doing the mod. At that point I was highly ticked off to put it mildly. It was a turbo six and a lot of people did mod them. I told them there was no way I could have swapped out the ECU in the 2 minutes from the time they drove the car around to me and loaded my kids in. I left the car there and told them where they could shove it and walked off.
They shipped the car back to Germany for tear down and inspection. As expected no issues of any sort of modifications. Apparently at the factory somehow things related to the fuel injection and 02 monitoring systems where crossed up between the left and right cylinder banks. They supposedly made a design change later so this couldn't happen. The way they treated me cost them a lot of money the past 20 years as I shopped elsewhere.
As for Tesla being generally forgiving about mods, read either the 3 or Y forum and the issues they had with aftermarket door puddle lights and warranty issues. I forget which thread it was.
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
But no warranty denial issues from Tesla for you personally. All of your warranty denial issues were from traditional carmakers 20 years ago.
So is all this BS ? Just wishful thinking?
www.teslarati.com
Tesla could soon let customers choose between a Yoke or Traditional steering wheel
Tesla customers may have a choice between a traditional round steering wheel and the Yoke in Model S and Model X vehicles.
www.teslarati.com
Wow, you make some pretty wide assumptions. Honestly I'd rather deal with a traditional car company when warranty issues arise than Tesla. As for warranty experience I merely listed one particularly bad example I experienced that resulted in the buy back of the car.
I can't tell you how many I personally adjudicated as an employee for a manufacturer. Probably that number would be in the thousands. I can't tell you how many things I saw people try to pull. Sadly I have more recent experience with dealing with warranty issue denials with other companies. Had a warranty denial just a few years ago on a Ram Ecodiesel when the motor grenaded. Took a few months of playing the game but got it covered under warranty as it should have been originally. They claimed I didn't use the appropriate oil. I went back to every dealer that ever changed the oil and provided all my maintenance records. Put a nice bow on all my records, called up the zone rep and told him to take care of it.
As for Tesla, no warranty denials yet. I just have a new S that I shouldn't drive as the delivered defects will get worse and cause them to potentially have to repaint more of my car. I opened up a service ticket within hours of delivery. I keep getting the service date pushed out from the original appointment for the day after delivery (9 days ago). It seems every few days it get pushed again. This morning I got another bump to March 14 this morning. That was the last bump and would make it almost one month the car would have sat in my driveway waiting to get fixed.
I would say Tesla's BS about something being in spec, when it isn't, is a form of warranty denial if you think about it. So if it is in spec, show me the specs. It will have to be codified somewhere.
It’s impossible to say for sure: it could simply be shared code across the model range, or Tesla could be developing an optional round craptic wheel for S/X/CyberTruck. But it certainly isn’t the easiest possible solution: code that allows us to easily swap in the wheel and stalks from 3/Y.So is all this BS ? Just wishful thinking?
Tesla could soon let customers choose between a Yoke or Traditional steering wheel
Tesla customers may have a choice between a traditional round steering wheel and the Yoke in Model S and Model X vehicles.
Since round wheels have popped up on the aftermarket as predicted, the stalkless craptic controls and the on-screen ‘shifting’ are the real deal breakers, and the most difficult problems to address, though not insurmountable.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery... 
electrek.co
Lexus unveils new pictures of its first all-electric car and it has a yoke steering wheel
Lexus is about to unveil its first all-electric vehicle, the Lexus RZ 450e, later this month, and it has started...
electrek.co
Regardless of how you feel about the yoke, the 1 thing I don't understand is why they wouldn't offer a wheel (when they clearly already had one designed per the test mules). There is not 1 single person in the world who bought this car SOLEY because it had a yoke, they may like the yoke, but it wasn't the deciding factor. However, on the other hand, there are many people who refuse to buy the car because of the yoke, so it makes zero sense.
Sales actually went up for S and X. So your assumption that many didn’t buy it bc of yoke is wrong.
This would only be a valid argument if there were no other changes than the yoke to the vehicles and that there were no outside factors that changed, such as a huge surge in EV interest and sales.
Tesla is selling every car they can make, I think that’s why they don’t complicate manufacturing with additional options.
I saw that and wanted to barf. I can't tell you how many companies I've seen copy a bad idea because other companies did it too.Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...
Lexus unveils new pictures of its first all-electric car and it has a yoke steering wheel
Lexus is about to unveil its first all-electric vehicle, the Lexus RZ 450e, later this month, and it has started...
Then I read this part when I first saw the article.
"Unlike Tesla, which popularized the yoke lately with the new Model S and Model X, Toyota implemented a drive-by-wire system that enables it to adjust the steering for low-speed situations and sharp turns."
That is where Tesla totally effed it up. I would hate the yoke less, perhaps even like it, if they did something like that. The removal of the stock and the button implementation is what I hate the most. If you look, Toyota didn't use haptic buttons and I like their placement better.
Come on, that's the silliest argument I've ever heard.
Believe it is only a matter of time until Tesla will also offer variable ration steering. Probably with just an OTA software update that will give options. Tesla already has electric steering that handles Autopilot.
Yoke steering is something new, and most are afraid of new things. Will take a while for this to become mainstream.
Saw the same resistance over the years to Power Steering (lack of feel), Power brakes (too sensitive), electric windows (just another thing to break), Tinted windshields (too expensive to replace), Automatic transmissions (want to control my car myself) Air Conditioning (too expensive, power robbing, reduces fuel economy) etc.
Yoke steering is something new, and most are afraid of new things. Will take a while for this to become mainstream.
Saw the same resistance over the years to Power Steering (lack of feel), Power brakes (too sensitive), electric windows (just another thing to break), Tinted windshields (too expensive to replace), Automatic transmissions (want to control my car myself) Air Conditioning (too expensive, power robbing, reduces fuel economy) etc.
FastEddieB
Member
I think a yoke makes the most sense when combined with highly variable ratio steering, such that the yoke doesn’t need to turn much more than about 90° in either direction. They work so well in planes since travel is limited, and you never need to go hand-over-hand to make even the steepest turn. Similarly, yokes are used on Formula 1 racing, but seem to be similarly geared so that no hand-over-hand gyrations are needed, even in tight turns.
I think it comes down to the following:
- How well the new technology is implemented.
- If it really solves a need that needs to be addressed or is a problem for many.
- Do the benefits outweigh the negatives ($, energy, retraining, maintenance, safety, etc.).
I think Tesla did a crap job implementing this. I think it answered a question that didn't need to be answered.
If they had done variable ratio power steering, or put more thought than just slapping a yoke on the existing steering mechanism, I'd be more on board. Then just have to deal with the crappy button placement and lack of buttons/controls they should have had.
I would love if they add the ability to use voice commands for gear shifts commands. Every day dealing with numerous 3 point turns just makes me hate my car in this situation. Can't tell you how many times I almost tapped a wall because I thought it had engaged the gear for opposition direction and it didn't.
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