Announcement of new Model S June 9th

[RogerHScott]

BEEZR, how sure are you that you'll want to go from an S to a 3? If you're fairly sure you'll want to do that, you could go the
lease route (rather than the path of lease resistance? ) Other than that, it sounds like you've got a pretty sweet (CPO) 60 coming
your way. If it were me, I think it would drive me crazy to be tooling around in a new 60 that could have AP but didn't, so I'd have
to build the AP-enablement price into the cost of the new 60, but YMMV. I can tell you that the next-gen seats are fabulous, but I
know nothing about the alternative.

 

[mshuang]

Pretty sure this is incorrect. I agree with others. I think it was 75,XXX, and defaulted to the D model. Selecting RWD, or -$5,000, dropped to $70,XXX, or $71,XXX. This is for the refreshed version, during June. Maybe someone has a cashed page, someplace? The point is, most of us recognize a price increase for the 75kwh car (66k + 8.5k, for RWD).

I made a spreadsheet of the prices and options. During post-facelift:

Upgrade to 75 kWh - 3250 (OTA) or 3,000 at Purchase. AWD add 5000.

70 (RWD) $71,500.
70D (AWD) $76,500
75 (RWD) 74,500
75D (AWD) 79,500

Today's Pricing changes the upgrade from 60 to 75, but the overall pricing remains the same.

 

[xav-]

So now do I have a dilemma? Put a $1000 deposit on a CPO S60 last month but still awaiting delivery. Car has been shipped so I'm obligated to pay the $1500 shipping if I decide to walk away or move my deposit to another car... Do I stay the course on the 2-year-old 60 or consider ordering a new one?

CPO (P34xxx), built 3/2014, 51K miles, $89,520 new; priced at $51,800 plus $1500 shipping is $53,300 plus tax.
Blue Metallic Paint (darker, discontinued), Pano, Tan Nappa, Premium Interior Lighting, Parking Sensors, Fog Lamps, 19", Obeche, Tech Pkg, UHFS, Smart Air, Supercharging, Paint Armor

Building a 60 outfitted similarly is $77,250 plus tax. Minus $7500 tax credit, so roughly $70,000 net.
60 RWD, Multi-Pattern Seats, Premium Upgrades ($3000), Smart Air ($2500), UHFS ($2500),

Nice to have:
Add $2500 for Next Gen seats
Add $2500 for Autopilot Convenience Features

I could forego air suspension (subtract $2500), so nets at $73,500.

The AP is very nice, no doubt, but I don't know if that plus the unlimited mileage battery warranty and a few other upgrades are worth $20,000 to me. And when my Model 3 reservation comes up I may trade/sell the S at that time... If I buy the new car and then move to the 3 in two years I'll take a huge hit on depreciation, much less on the CPO car.

I think I answered my own question, but always interested to hear the collective wisdom of this board.

Are premium sound system and premium package really worth it? Then did you take into consideration the $1,000 referral credit?

My understanding is that the smart air suspension is not worth it especially with the 19 inch wheels but could be mistaken.

Personally especially after reading some of the really bad reviews on reliability and the high cost of repairs I would feel much better buying something brand new and potentially consider buying an extended warranty (and having the piece of mind for 5 or 6 years)

I am not sure depreciation will be worse. I would expect tesla to give you a lot more money on a 2016 model s with a 75 KW battery / hardware autopilot than a 2013 60 KW with many many miles.

Personally looking into 70 or 60 rwd as well.. Facing the same challenges as you do.. good luck

 

[Cstreet]

New or CPO?

New! I love the new front. I went with the next gen seats, autopilot, and upgraded paint.

I rented a 2015 a few weeks ago with autopilot and it was great. I was just going back and forth on the seats but after trying both prefer the next gen ones.

 

[modamoda]

Release of 60kWh model is brilliant idea! I think it is Tesla's strategy for oversea sales. Some countries have tough tax incentive qualifications.
For example, South Korea government do not offer tax incentive for high-capacity-battery models like 90D while Toyota Prius and BMW i3 can get incentive. Why? because EV over 70 kWh is not incentive-qualified. (kinda stupid regulation)

They will be able to buy* Model S 60 with tax incentive(up to 20k USD equivalent), and can unlock 75kWh upgrade after purchase.


* Tesla Korea does not sell cars currently, but they are in process of certification.

 

[ggnykk]

This makes sense from a Sales and Marketing standpoint as Model S sales were actually starting to slip in 2Q16.



View attachment 180183



I agree

I thought Tesla slowed down deliveries of cars in April and May coz of the Model X issues. I remember reading somewhere that Model S deliveries was slowed down as well somehow. Remember this table is NOT showing number of orders, just deliveries.

 

[ggnykk]

Can't see why anyone wouldn't think this is a great move by Tesla. Lowers the price point to attract many more buyers (including myself) who otherwise wouldn't buy a Model S because of the cost. It's now just in the price zone that I would be comfortable spending. Now need to decide if I'll hold out for Model 3 or take the plunge on an S. I love the fact that if I find 210 miles of range isn't quite cutting it that I can later upgrade to greater range by unlocking the full capabilities of the battery pack.

If you get the 75kwh battery upgrade, you are charging to 80% or 90% most of the time anyway in order to supercharge faster as well as protecting the battery. If you charge 80%, that means you use 60kwh of the battery, which obviously mean it bring you back down to the 60 Model S.

In other words, Tesla's latest move basically allow customers to buy a 75kwh cars for $8500 USD less money. The user isn't losing anything here.

 

[ggnykk]

So now do I have a dilemma? Put a $1000 deposit on a CPO S60 last month but still awaiting delivery. Car has been shipped so I'm obligated to pay the $1500 shipping if I decide to walk away or move my deposit to another car... Do I stay the course on the 2-year-old 60 or consider ordering a new one?

CPO (P34xxx), built 3/2014, 51K miles, $89,520 new; priced at $51,800 plus $1500 shipping is $53,300 plus tax.
Blue Metallic Paint (darker, discontinued), Pano, Tan Nappa, Premium Interior Lighting, Parking Sensors, Fog Lamps, 19", Obeche, Tech Pkg, UHFS, Smart Air, Supercharging, Paint Armor

Building a 60 outfitted similarly is $77,250 plus tax. Minus $7500 tax credit, so roughly $70,000 net.
60 RWD, Multi-Pattern Seats, Premium Upgrades ($3000), Smart Air ($2500), UHFS ($2500),

Nice to have:
Add $2500 for Next Gen seats
Add $2500 for Autopilot Convenience Features

I could forego air suspension (subtract $2500), so nets at $73,500.

The AP is very nice, no doubt, but I don't know if that plus the unlimited mileage battery warranty and a few other upgrades are worth $20,000 to me. And when my Model 3 reservation comes up I may trade/sell the S at that time... If I buy the new car and then move to the 3 in two years I'll take a huge hit on depreciation, much less on the CPO car.

I think I answered my own question, but always interested to hear the collective wisdom of this board.

The "legacy" 60 Model S supercharge a LOT slower than this new 60 Model S for sure. The new 60 car actually has 75kwh battery software limited to 60 kwh. If you use a lot of supercharger, it is a massive difference.

 

[AustinPowers]

I made a spreadsheet of the prices and options. During post-facelift:

Upgrade to 75 kWh - 3250 (OTA) or 3,000 at Purchase. AWD add 5000.

70 (RWD) $71,500.
70D (AWD) $76,500
75 (RWD) 74,500
75D (AWD) 79,500

Today's Pricing changes the upgrade from 60 to 75, but the overall pricing remains the same.

Has anyone got this data for Gemany?
I can't remember exactly, but it looks as if the new 60 base model is more expensive than the old 70 base model? Doesn't seem to make sense.

Current numbers:

60 (RWD) 76,600 Euro (~86,500 USD)
60D (AWD) 82,100 Euro (~92,500 USD)
75 (RWD) 86,000 Euro (~97,000 USD)
75D (AWD) 91,500 Euro (~103,500 USD)

Those are really hefty prices imho. Especially considering they are for the "naked" bare bones base model with absolutely no options.
I remember when you could get a well equipped 85 for less than 100k Euro. And I thought falling battery prices were supposed to make EV prices cheaper over time. Confused.

 

[deonb]

Pardon if this has been answered before.

So the S60 model will have a 75KW battery software limited to 60KW.

My question is will the S60 (75KW) have the same charging curve characteristics as the 75KW but software capped at 80%?

So an advantage would be much quicker charging to "100%" at a super charger compared to a true 60KW battery?

Another advantage would be having a 20% battery degradation buffer built in?

Can some battery expert confirm?

Assuming Tesla use same implementation for the 60/75 is as the 40/60 (which of course they might not, but this is the only precedent we have right now to look at):

a) The battery slider will show the full layout of the 75 battery, but you won't be able to move it past the 80% mark.
b) You'll never see a 100% charged (all green) battery indicator - the top 20% will always be black
c) Charging to max on the new 60 would be at same curve as charging to 80% on the 75. So, significantly faster than charging to 100% on the old 60.
d) You have a 20% battery degradation buffer - BUT you'll see something that looks like degradation:

There is this still unsettled issue that if you keep charging a battery to mid ranges, it will start showing a phantom range loss. You can "fix" this by doing an empty to 100% charge for the battery for a day or so long, and it will regain those lost miles. You can attribute this to battery balancing, or simply the software having to re-calibrate, but point is, it requires an occasional 0% -> 100% charge to fix. Now, of course, in a 60/75 you won't be able to do a charge to 100% so it may actually show MORE losses than a 75 charged to 90%. However, the service center will do a 100% fix-up charge for you once a year during service if you ask them to.


Again, even though I wrote the above in the tense of "this is how the 60/75 will work", it is really based on the 40/60. So this might end up being different in one or more ways.

 

[dfluker]

I received my 75D two weeks ago. The upgrade from the 70D was a total waste.

They tell you to limit the charge to 90% for the "health of the battery" which is basically the equivalent of charging the 70D to 100%

I can't believe they haven't increased the performance of the 75D, it should absolutely be marginally faster than the 60D or 70D.

I feel like I was totally ripped off but very happy with the car other than this.

I think everyone with a 75D would feel better about paying for the upgrade if it also came with a slight increase to the 0 to 60.... Something just below 5 seconds which we know is possible if the 85D could do 4.4 seconds with same motors.

 

[RogerHScott]

New! I love the new front. I went with the next gen seats, autopilot, and upgraded paint.

I rented a 2015 a few weeks ago with autopilot and it was great. I was just going back and forth on the seats but after trying both prefer the next gen ones.

You are sure to love it.
Living in Palo Alto, you'll no longer be the oddball on your block not driving a Tesla

 

[thx1139]

When they have blindspot warning that actually works, autopark starts recognizing things regularly and the "truck lust" is fixed, I will agree that AP 1.0 is nothing more than a perpetual beta gimmick. Until then . . .

Cant agree. Drove from Chicago to Florida and back at the end of December. 95% of the time on Auto-Pilot. Was so much easier and less stressful. I also find it a god send in bumper to bumper highway traffic during Chicago rush hours. My legs feel much better at the end of the commute and my mind is not nearly as stressed. That isnt a gimmick that is something that really works.

 

[xav-]

New! I love the new front. I went with the next gen seats, autopilot, and upgraded paint.

I rented a 2015 a few weeks ago with autopilot and it was great. I was just going back and forth on the seats but after trying both prefer the next gen ones.

I just finishing ordering my 60 just now! I was actually planning on getting a loaded Bolt later this year but I started looking at some MS CPOs. This change got me off the fence and into a MS. Now I just have to wait for my car!

congrats, I have such a hard time doing like you. I don't think the bolt is worth it, too expensive for what it really is.. Maybe as a lease. It will likely be day and night with your model s.

 

[boofagle]

My gut tells me they'll eventually allow you to have "temporary unlocks" on a pay-per-use basis and this might be the pilot program for the same situation with the Model 3. It allows buy in at a lower price and the ability to "unlock" extra watts for the occasional long trip which could allow a person to skip a supercharger or 2. It would be well worth it for Tesla in order to ease SC congestion once they start making 500k+ cars a year vs having a bunch of lower kWh cars that need to hit each SC on a trip in order to get to where they're planning on going.

 

[RogerHScott]

As nice as that sounds (from the perspective of a Tesla customer), I can't see a business reason for them to do that.
Pay-for-use rarely generates as much revenue as pay-just-in-case-you-might-use.

 

[boofagle]

True, but they're putting the 75s in anyway which may never be unlocked to their full potential. I believe people on the fence about purchasing an EV due to "range anxiety" and the expense of more range would more than likely still purchase one knowing that if they ever needed the extra kWh they have them as opposed to not buying at all and sticking with gas. More car sales > a possible upgrade purchase.

Also, there's still the issue of SC congestion and the possible relief this could bring. It gets bad press when it happens and that alone might be worth doing this from a business perspective.

 

[FlatSix911]

You are sure to love it.
Living in Palo Alto, you'll no longer be the oddball on your block not driving a Tesla

Perfect... as my wife and friends say, Tesla is the Palo Alto Camry!

 

[modamoda]

As nice as that sounds (from the perspective of a Tesla customer), I can't see a business reason for them to do that.

Some countries do not offer tax-incentive for high-battery-capacity EVs. But with 60, customers in such country are now able to buy with tax incentive and unlock later. Which is cheaper then buying 75 without incentive.

 

[ggnykk]

It would be well worth it for Tesla in order to ease SC congestion once they start making 500k+ cars a year vs having a bunch of lower kWh cars that need to hit each SC on a trip in order to get to where they're planning on going.

Not really true. The top 10 to 20% of the battery charge extremely slow, very very few people wait for that. When you buy the new 60 kwh Model S. It is basically a software limited 75 kwh at 80%. Getting the new 60 vs the 75 essentially make no difference for people in 95% of the real world use case, especially considering the ever expanding supercharger network.