How about integration with iPod Out functionality.
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/bmw-to-support-new-ipod-out-feature-in-ios-4/
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/bmw-to-support-new-ipod-out-feature-in-ios-4/
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But coasting does give you something. When you accelerate, you lose 10-15 % of the energy as heat in the motor, cables, pem and battery. When you regen, you lose another 10-15%, so you'll be lucky to recover 75% of the original energy. All the old gas-saving techniques like braking early to conserve speed, "driving without brakes" etc work even better with electric cars because of their efficiency.
Please believe me - I have three years of experience driving an electric car with only 80 km range. If you need max range, then use of the mechanical brakes is a minor disaster and regen should be avoided as much as possible. If you for instance approach a traffic light which turns red, you can increase range by regen-braking hard and early, and coast at the speed that will let the light change back to green again before you have to stop. I don't know how many times I've seen a fat Porche or BMW blast past me in the other lane, brake hard and stop just in front of the light, while I regen-braked early and kept coasting - when the light goes green, I easily outrun him to the next light with my 27 kW motor because I'm still going 35 km/h, while he's standing still. So I coast a lot.
Don't get me wrong, I love pretending I'm a race driver from time to time too - that's why we own an Alfa Romeo. But sometimes I need all the range I can get, and that will be true even with a 300 mile Model S. Most of the time, the roads are too crowded for spirited driving anyway.
I think I would prefer "roadster type" regen, but with a slight deadband for coasting. In a car with front wheel drive or four wheel drive, though, I think the addition of even more regen with the brake pedal might be good. There are limits to how hard you can regen with the rear wheels only. Regen on the front wheels or all four can be far more powerful.
All of this will be controlled by software, so the best solution would be to make deadbands, extra regen when braking etc customizable. A slider for adjusting deadband and another to shift regen between brake pedal and accelerator would do it. Leave the first centimeter or so of pedal travel to variable regen control. Only the AWD version might need additional regen on the brake pedal.
Question: Does the roadster have variable power regen, or is it all or nothing?
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Variable. It is all in the right pedal. The deadband you talk about is part of the smooth and continuous right pedal travel, and some complain because the exact "dead" (or coast) spot is hard to find or maintain. True, you still need to have your foot on the right pedal, because if you lift just a little too far, you are regen'ing instead of coasting. But coasting is possible. I like your idea though of a slider for adjusting WHERE (and how large) the deadband is, including at the zero position (completely off) of the accelerator.
Good, I thought so. The reason for the question is that I recently read complaints that the Roadster regen is (too) strong, and also that the new Think and the MiEV regen are on/off, or at least the variability is so small that it is on/off in practice. The default regen is far too weak, like 4. gear engine drag, and the eco-mode regen is also weak (3. gear). So you end up having only two fixed levels of regen which you constantly have to switch between using the mode selector. Crude and a total pain when you are used to a better system. Given that the Roadster regen is smoothly variable I can not understand the complaints. Just wanted to be sure.
This is the same situation as with the new Think and the MiEV. I find it tiresome to keep balancing at the zero point. Keeping the foot on the pedal is not the issue for me, it is the balancing act that gets annoying. A small deadband would help a lot.
I agree with vfx (?) and think they should keep the brake lights off until the regen approaches 3. gear engine drag.
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Which is sort of what they do. The brake lights do NOT come on immediately when regen starts. It has not been confirmed (from what I have read/heard) exactly what the trigger point or method is, but I believe the activation of the brake lights is based on the deceleration (# of g's), and -0.3g has been mentioned somewhere. But I also think the algorithm may be more complex at low speed.
So ... if you're going fast, 65mph on the freeway for example, and just lift off a little, nothing happens w.r.t. brake lights. You *ARE* already slowing down a bit (like the 4th/3rd gear you mention), but brake lights stay off. However, if you lift off completely, strong regen sets it (and the resultant deceleration with significant negative g's) and the brake lights light up. Where exactly is the "brake-even" (pun intended) ? Not sure.
When decelerating at slow speeds, g forces are smaller; so not sure when the brake lights come on or exactly how the firmware decides.
Edit: Anyone with better or more official info on the "brake light algorithm" ?
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Sounds fine to me. Thank you. (brake-even - heh 
Final version of my wish: An accelerator pedal zero zone or deadband where the car will coast freely. The width and position of this zone should be customizable within reasonable limits, to accomodate both those who want instant response and the more frugal minded.
Final version of my wish: An accelerator pedal zero zone or deadband where the car will coast freely. The width and position of this zone should be customizable within reasonable limits, to accomodate both those who want instant response and the more frugal minded.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I don't anticipate that adjustable brake settings will be in the car...too many regulatory/safety concerns, I'd bet.
I don't like finding the Tesla deadband because my foot cramps up. Maybe other's don't but mine does.
As for the taillights (what thread is this?) When considering features I always envision a freeway of all electrics. With the current Roadster scheme applied to all those cars I would bet that a traffic expert would confirm that overall the flow speed would be slower since there would be so many red taillights coming on and multiple drivers behind them reacting to them. A slowing domino effect that will either make drivers come to a near spot or they start ignoring the brake light with other unintended consequences.
New idea: A special specific regen taillight. Perhaps the 3rd taillight only lights amber on regen.
As for the taillights (what thread is this?) When considering features I always envision a freeway of all electrics. With the current Roadster scheme applied to all those cars I would bet that a traffic expert would confirm that overall the flow speed would be slower since there would be so many red taillights coming on and multiple drivers behind them reacting to them. A slowing domino effect that will either make drivers come to a near spot or they start ignoring the brake light with other unintended consequences.
New idea: A special specific regen taillight. Perhaps the 3rd taillight only lights amber on regen.
Interesting idea. A sort of "caution" light causing other drivers behind you to take notice. And red brake lights only when you actually press brake pedal. Wonder if it's practical though ... hard to get the huge "oil tanker" (pun intended) of ingrained habits to shift direction and accept new paradigms
( Hate these emoticon; are those "eyes rolling" ? )
I was told by Hans in Toronto that the algorithm also looks at how fast you lift off the pedal. So it is a bit more complex than simple deceleration.
Because my car is Fusion Red, at night I can see the brake lights in my rear view mirror. The "cyclops" brake light at the top of the rear window lights up the area at the bottom of the window. So I've been able to see how the brake lights behave.
If you let off gradually, the brake lights come on at somewhere around 50% regen. They stay on until the car enters the "creep forward" mode, at which point they turn off again. If you let off quickly they turn on immediately.
FWIW I love the regen, precisely because it is very precisely controllable. You can ease it from slight acceleration to slight deceleration and back again; it's very smooth and natural. There's no way it is "too powerful"; if you don't want to decelerate that fast, don't lift off as much.
But it isn't brake settings, right? It's the accelerator!
On my Alfa there is a small distance from the start of the pedal travel to where the engine starts to react. As long as the mechanical brakes are there and ready, I would be surprised if you are not allowed to play around with engine drag/regen positions and deadbands on the accelerator pedal.
Oh, wait - I did mention brakes. But when everyone assures me that the roadster regen is sufficiently powerful, I trust you. Still, in a car with 4WD or FWD, you can regen with the front wheels, which makes it possible to regenerate really hard without locking the wheels. If the electronics and battery can handle the current, that is. In such a car, one might add even more regen with the brake pedal. The maximum pedal travel before the brakes kick in is regulated, but there is some space there. The old Think City 4, which there were several hundred of on US roads about ten years ago, added more regen when the brake pedal was depressed lightly. You are probably right that there isn't much space available for variability, though.
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Originally Posted by SByer [On the Tall roadster owner thread]
The steering wheel hinders the view of the speedo for nearly everybody. That's why there's the digital readout on the VDS ;-).
You can't see when the "brights" indicator is on either.
They (all) design the speedo cluster to be seen when looking flat at the steering wheel. Great on the drawing board and in pictures but it ends up only working for people in the five foot range. I once suggested that they flip the gauges upside down. That way the needle sweeps the bottom of the circle instead of over across the top. Someone has probably done this. Probably considered "too weird".
Here is a suggestion for he Model S. Since the instrument cluster is all just a flat panel display why not have different height settings where the gauges move around based on the driver's eyeline. Each person's settings can be remembered like modern seat and steering wheel settings. Would be a cool techy thing that would set the car apart.
Of course a HUD would be even more cool.
The steering wheel hinders the view of the speedo for nearly everybody. That's why there's the digital readout on the VDS ;-).
You can't see when the "brights" indicator is on either.
They (all) design the speedo cluster to be seen when looking flat at the steering wheel. Great on the drawing board and in pictures but it ends up only working for people in the five foot range. I once suggested that they flip the gauges upside down. That way the needle sweeps the bottom of the circle instead of over across the top. Someone has probably done this. Probably considered "too weird".
Here is a suggestion for he Model S. Since the instrument cluster is all just a flat panel display why not have different height settings where the gauges move around based on the driver's eyeline. Each person's settings can be remembered like modern seat and steering wheel settings. Would be a cool techy thing that would set the car apart.
Of course a HUD would be even more cool.
I have owned cars where I can see the cluster if I tilt the adjustable wheel in the most upward facing position, but end up intentionally obscuring the gauges by pointing the wheel more flat/down because I have heard you are better off pointing the airbag at your chest, not at your face. (In case of accident.)
Making that display a touch screen is probably overkill given how little use it would get. But a customization program that your could run from your PC or on the 17 inch would be nice (and likely too complicated for John Q. Public). Hmmm... even better, if you can do your customization via browser in the cloud and that would then be synced to the car via cellular data connection. Tesla has already talked about display "themes". Perhaps users could share their various customizations.
Nik
Got there eventually :-)
I'd like to feel a bit of feedback from the pedals at the 'go faster' end of this deadzone - a tiny change in the pressure required so that I can rest the pedal against it. This could also be set via software.
mt2
Member
We've heard a lot of really nice features in the Model S, but did anyone check out our wish list? Here are some of the things I really want, which I assume the Model S will have. Can anyone confirm?
*Adaptive cruise control
*Folding and auto-dimming outside mirrors with memory feature
*Rear parking assist, camera or simply acoustic measure
*Auto-Dimming rear-view mirror
*Electrically adjusted seats with memory
*Blind spot monitor
*Lane departure warning system
*Adaptive cruise control
*Folding and auto-dimming outside mirrors with memory feature
*Rear parking assist, camera or simply acoustic measure
*Auto-Dimming rear-view mirror
*Electrically adjusted seats with memory
*Blind spot monitor
*Lane departure warning system
Citizen-T
Active Member
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