Anti-Tesla Gibberish

[dsm363]

Who are these people? My God there is a lot of stupidity and incivility out there.

What the heck is a Model S Alpha they keep talking about? I agree...rude and stupid.

Way to fight the good fight strider. I've kind of given up commenting on these types of stories and education and facts don't seem to make a difference when the level of hate and vitriol is this high.

 

[ferrarimanf355]

Well, somebody has to be wrong. :biggrin:

Thing is, the only green car he likes is the Volt, and that's only because it's a product of Old Detroit. He flat out dismissed Fiat USA's chances after their less-than-smooth launch, and after sales picked up, he didn't admit to being wrong, instead hurling bitter insults at Sergio Marchionne like a cranky old man.

He railed against Fisker again this week, conveniently ignoring the new round of funding they got.

Fisker Gets $100 Million More In Funding To Develop Atlantic

He could have updated his article, but that would require admitting he was wrong. He's probably thinking of new insults for Henrik.

Just had to vent.

 

[JRP3]

I can't fault him for bashing Fisker....not a fan.

 

[vfx]

...
Way to fight the good fight strider. ..

+1 Strider.

Only thing to add it the AVMT is a Bush program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Vehicles_Manufacturing_Loan_Program

 

[strider]

What the heck is a Model S Alpha they keep talking about? I agree...rude and stupid.

Way to fight the good fight strider. I've kind of given up commenting on these types of stories and education and facts don't seem to make a difference when the level of hate and vitriol is this high.

Thanks. Yeah, I generally avoid them but was feeling frisky so weighed in - it also helped that the site didn't require any registration. I figure if I can affect one mind or bring one person out of the closet then it was worth it. Like on that market-ticker.org bricking thread awhile back I got a couple long-time posters there to "out" themselves as Volt drivers so that was fun.

+1 Strider.

Only thing to add it the AVMT is a Bush program.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Technology_Vehicles_Manufacturing_Loan_Program

Yeah, I mentioned that in my last post on the thread but I'm cautious on this since I believe it was the Obama admin that actually approved Tesla's application and therefore were the ones to give them the money.

 

[vfx]

... I believe it was the Obama admin that actually approved Tesla's application and therefore were the ones to give them the money.

Which I call bipartisan support.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah, I mentioned that in my last post on the thread but I'm cautious on this since I believe it was the Obama admin that actually approved Tesla's application and therefore were the ones to give them the money.

You mean "loan them the money" :wink:

 

[ferrarimanf355]

Rants - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high octane truth...

He doesn't think pure electrics are any good, and he throws in the "where does the electricity" argument like a good defender of Old Detroit.

You can tweet him @petermdelorenzo, but he'll probably block you if you prove him wrong.

 

[Krugerrand]

Electric Cars -- the Math Simply Doesn't Add Up - TheStreet

 

[dsm363]

Electric Cars -- the Math Simply Doesn't Add Up - TheStreet

Wow. At least he learned something from us:

Except for the Tesla Motors (TSLA) product line, all hybrid and plug-in electric vehicles use large amounts of the rare earth metals neodymium and dysprosium in the permanent magnet motors for their electric drive.

 

[ferrarimanf355]

Emails of the Week - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high octane truth...

He did publish a pro-Tesla letter this week, but keeping with his strategy, he published it with an insulting headline.

 

[JRP3]

Electric Cars -- the Math Simply Doesn't Add Up - TheStreet

I had to jump in on this one, he's just regurgitating his old SA articles in a new forum, we'll see if my comments show up.

 

[vfx]

I had to jump in on this one, he's just regurgitating his old SA articles in a new forum, we'll see if my comments show up.

Me too.

His storybook island scenario is back.

Imagine you have 45 kWh of batteries. You can use them to make one basic Tesla Model S or a fleet of 30 Prius-class HEVs. The Model S will save one owner 400 to 500 gallons of gas a year, but a fleet of 30 Prius-class HEVs would save 4,800 gallons of gas a year using the same battery materials.

And those 30 Prius' would burn 8,400 gallons of gas The Tesla would burn none. In fact 30 Teslas would burn 0 gallons of gas. All 20,000 Tesla delivered would burn ZERO gallons of gasoline. 20,000 Prius' on the other hand, over one year would burn 5,600,000 gallons of gas.
***********

Can someone check my math?

 

[Robert.Boston]

Those look right, but you're missing JP's "world of shortage" thinking. JP believes there's only so much cobalt to go around, so we'll get more gasoline reduction per pound of cobalt if we deploy it on hybrids. He's right in a limited way: if every car had a battery with 30 miles of range, we'd use far less gas than if 10% had a 300-mile range battery and the remainder were pure ICE.

 

[vfx]

Those look right, but you're missing JP's "world of shortage" thinking. JP believes there's only so much cobalt to go around, so we'll get more gasoline reduction per pound of cobalt if we deploy it on hybrids. He's right in a limited way: if every car had a battery with 30 miles of range, we'd use far less gas than if 10% had a 300-mile range battery and the remainder were pure ICE.

He's only right if there is a limited supply of certain materials it takes to build EVs. Since that limitation is fabricated from his own imagination it carries as much weight as any other fairy tale.

 

[jerry33]

And those 30 Prius' would burn 8,400 gallons of gas The Tesla would burn none. In fact 30 Teslas would burn 0 gallons of gas. All 20,000 Tesla delivered would burn ZERO gallons of gasoline. 20,000 Prius' on the other hand, over one year would burn 5,600,000 gallons of gas.

Can someone check my math?

Gas purchased in nine years (less 15 days) -- 2,507.8 U.S. gallons
For one year -- 2,507.8 / 9 = 278.64 gallons
278.64 * 20,000 = 5,572,800

However, folks tell me that most people don't get the MPG that I get, so the actual number will be higher, perhaps by as much as 50%.

 

[Doug_G]

He's only right if there is a limited supply of certain materials it takes to build EVs. Since that limitation is fabricated from his own imagination it carries as much weight as any other fairy tale.

At current rates of production there is at least 80 years of known reserves. Also batteries can be readily recycled and the cobalt extracted for reuse. Try to do that with petroleum. And he ignores the fact that there are alternative materials that can and will be used in the future - economic factors will ensure that.

Total nonsense.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

It's all about the lead! He is just pushing his stock

 

[JRP3]

Did you see the comment about lead being safe because kids use "lead" pencils every day????? :scared:

 

[Doug_G]

It's all about the lead! He is just pushing his stock

Hmm. Lead! http://geology.com/usgs/lead/

Known world reserves of lead - 80,000,000 metric tonnes
Production rate - 4,100,000 metric tonnes per year

This means that we have less than 20 years of lead reserves! The sky is falling!!!

Fortunately lead is easily recycled from automotive batteries. World consumption is actually 9,350,000 metric tonnes per year, which is sustainable despite mining less than half of that. Thank heavens for recycling!

Of course we could never do the same thing with cobalt, right JP?