Anti-Tesla Gibberish

[JRP3]

This thread is really for discussing articles or programs using wrong or misleading information to bash Tesla. If you feel your critiques of Tesla are based on false premises and use misleading information then you are in the right thread.

 

[jeff_adams]

I think people never drove such fast EV car & that's why keep thinking that model s is selling because of that combination (ev, luxury & fast top of that good-looking)

There are many reasons why people are buying the Model S. One of the biggest ones is company vision.

People believe Tesla will change the industry. They bought the Roadster thinking the Model S would be great. They are buying the S thinking the model X will be great. They will buy the X thinking the Genlll car will be great. This is a company they are glad to support.

 

[rolosrevenge]

Yes, I drove someone for two blocks (models 60 or 85 not sure).

If you drove v6 or v8 models don't feel out of this world as people make out.

I think people never drove such fast EV car & that's why keep thinking that model s is selling because of that combination (ev, luxury & fast top of that good-looking)

I disagree. I drive an A6 3.0 Quattro and was blown away by the Model S Performance.

 

[fastcars]

There are many reasons why people are buying the Model S. One of the biggest ones is company vision. I don't think company with total production equal to one day production of big company will change everything. I think other companies have access to technology & resources to build one but only economic doesn't work for them.

People believe Tesla will change the industry. They bought the Roadster thinking the Model S would be great. They are buying the S thinking the model X will be great. They will buy the X thinking the Genlll car will be great. This is a company they are glad to support.

Yeah for 100k per piece. I am not only in minority thinks that it will change the industry because EV per say will change the automobile industry.

People said apple change smartphone but again see where is android.

You will have plenty of choice in gen 3 category. In fact you have few choices right now (agree not that great compared to model s) but future looks good.

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree. I drive an A6 3.0 Quattro and was blown away by the Model S Performance.

If you drove performance 85 in that case it is hard to debate.

I don't hear much about repair of model s after warranty (maybe people are in honeymoon phase). Right now gas price & repair cost stop anyone from buying models to ICE in same price range.

 

[fastcars]

Okay I was doubting about couple of things (recall one of this http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/18062-Partial-Recall/page2)

[1] Battery warranty: Tesla offers eight years 125k mile warranty on battery compare to a prius 10 yrs 150k miles (at least in CA). I know hybrid have small battery but saying an even smaller cost anywhere from 2k to 3k (Toyota charge above 3k to replace it)

[2] Battery charge: Some posters are finding 5% battery loss. Even your battery in working condition after eight yrs but reduce capacity makes a car short range vehicle or wherever you want to call it.

[3] Battery replacement cost: Too early for any model s to replace battery but how much it will cost today if you have to replace. It will give me some idea about the future cost.

[4] 40kw battery option removed in April 2013. It will reduce a cost of the car for many buyers who is looking purely for daily commute. One can use ICE for a couple of long journeys per year.

 

[kvietor]

@fastcars, are you looking for reasons to buy the Model S or NOT to buy it. I'm a little confused. All your points are valid, i.e. range, reliability, safety, battery replacement cost. But you can find just as many reasons not to buy an ICE vehicle. Everything boils down to needs and wants and the ability to pay for it.

I ordered my S in 2009, had it delivered in 2012, and paid for it and am enjoying the heck out of driving it. Not because it's an EV or COTY or to impress my neighbors. I did it because I can. Plain and simple. It's nice not having to visit the gas stations anymore. It's really cool having people stop you to ask what it is. But that's just the fun stuff. It may not be practical, but I don't care.

So maybe you really should be looking elsewhere for your next car. Something that you can justify.

BTW, my neighbors are impressed.:biggrin:

 

[fastcars]

@kvietor,

I test drive model S & love it.

I am trying to figure out.. cost effective to buy EV (saves gas, maintenance, green & car got such great reviews) or stick with ICE.

You don't have tons of EV in market so tesla can't be ignore or overlook at this point.

I am not like someone who will buy based on experience but based on practical reasons (stated above).

If I don't get the answers (not necessary anyone has to convince me or force me:wink my search will continue elsewhere but that's my own thing.:biggrin:

 

[brianman]

I test drive model S & love it.

Test drive the other options. If that opinion still remains, it becomes easy to decide. No?

 

[ChadS]

The Model S is definitely cost effective if you compare it to gas cars of the same class. If you compare it to a Corolla, not so much. It's better than gas cars, but it's not magic.

It is true that there are many unknowns about future values and costs related to the Model S. That's because it's in the future; we also don't know what the price of gas will be years in the future; that could completely overwhelm any Model S costs. Resale of gas cars may be very poor if everybody is buying EVs by the time you try to sell it. It's impossible to figure out exact future costs; but lack of certainty does not necessarily mean the numbers will not be in the Model S' favor. We just can't know.

That said, not all of your questions are complete mysteries. One we might find about soon: there is reason to suspect that Thursday night's swapping announcement may include future battery prices. Tesla has already said they will offer a 85kWh pack replacement in 8 years for $12k if you buy it now ($10k for a 60kWh); it's possible that fee might include swapping in the meantime.

Another we have a reasonably good bead on is future battery capacity. Most 4-year-old Roadsters with 50k miles have only lost about 10% of capacity, and capacity loss is greater in early years. Plus the Model S pack was built to last a long time in a car, rather than built from commodity cells. I think somebody at Tesla suggested over 70% after 8 years, and 60% after 18 years. In any event, it's not likely to be a "short-range" car for the reasonable life of the car. Especially if you go for the swapping/replacement deal (assuming they announce it tomorrow).

 

[brianman]

The Model S ... it's not magic.

I choose to believe.

 

[fastcars]

My current Acura isn't super fast car but not Corolla by any means. I am not comparing orange to apple either and know the car world pretty well.

I am not sure with price range of Model S and it's not magic (I agree)

 

[JRP3]

None of your concerns can truly be answered by anything but the passage of time, so you should probably just wait.

 

[fastcars]

None of your concerns can truly be answered by anything but the passage of time, so you should probably just wait.

yeah probably you are right.

 

[Mycroft]

IMO, unless you would have purchased a brand new Porsche, Mercedes, BMW anyway, it's nearly impossible to justify a Model S purchase based on money savings.

This, hopefully, will change with GenIII.

 

[jerry33]

IMO, unless you would have purchased a brand new Porsche, Mercedes, BMW anyway, it's nearly impossible to justify a Model S purchase based on money savings.

Not really. While this site hasn't been updated in a while, so it has the old prices, it certainly shows how it can be cost justified. The thing that always gets me is that no one ever asks about price justifying a Porsche, Mercedes, or BMW. The only reason you price justify something is that it is deficient in many areas and so you justify buying it due to cost. The Model S isn't deficient.

 

[Mycroft]

The thing that always gets me is that no one ever asks about price justifying a Porsche, Mercedes, or BMW.

Exactly.

 

[Duckjybe]

Jeremy Cato in The Globe comparing Tesla's chances of success to that of Better Place. I wonder who pays for ads around his articles? IMHO the big auto makers don't stand a chance in the EV space.


How can tiny Tesla compete against the big auto makers? - The Globe and Mail

 

[jeff_adams]

Jeremy Cato in The Globe comparing Tesla's chances of success to that of Better Place. I wonder who pays for ads around his articles? The big auto makers don't stand a chance in the EV space.


How can tiny Tesla compete against the big auto makers? - The Globe and Mail

It would be interesting to see an article talking about the lack of dealership enthusiasm for EVs. Automakers may be coming around to the idea, consumers may be excited, but if dealers don't want to really sell them, then Tesla has a huge advantage in the market place.

Don't get me started on the fuel cell vehicles. The dealers can't take the time to educate themselves on EVs and the automakers think they will sell hydrogen cars?

 

[JRP3]

Another SA short recommendation: http://seekingalpha.com/article/154...nd-overvaluation-make-tesla-a-short-candidate

 

[electrictorque]

Another SA short recommendation: http://seekingalpha.com/article/154...nd-overvaluation-make-tesla-a-short-candidate

And you know why? Tesla is a hot topic now and any article draws attention.

look at the bottom of the article. that is what these articles are all about.
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