Any lawyers around?

[NLM3]

Here’s my issue. I ordered a P3- from inventory in September. I found out 2 weeks later they gave the car to someone else, despite me having an order and invoice with the car’s VIN.
Since then I’ve been waiting for them to do something for me, with no success (other than an offer of car mats). They are maintaining that they no longer offer the P3- and so have the right to cancel my order.
One compromise I’d be very happy with is for them to offer me a LR, along with the acceleration upgrade FOC - that is equivalent to the agreed price I’ve got for the P3-.

They’ve not been very accommodating so far. Have I got any legal grounds for claiming the LR and acceleration upgrade is an equivalent?

 

[Rooster6655]

Here’s my issue. I ordered a P3- from inventory in September. I found out 2 weeks later they gave the car to someone else, despite me having an order and invoice with the car’s VIN.
Since then I’ve been waiting for them to do something for me, with no success (other than an offer of car mats). They are maintaining that they no longer offer the P3- and so have the right to cancel my order.
One compromise I’d be very happy with is for them to offer me a LR, along with the acceleration upgrade FOC - that is equivalent to the agreed price I’ve got for the P3-.

They’ve not been very accommodating so far. Have I got any legal grounds for claiming the LR and acceleration upgrade is an equivalent?

Not a lawyer but somebody who will spend a lot of time researching the law to help out, unfortunately there is little that you can do here legally as they could just cancel your order an refund you and their legal obligation would be voided.

You are however in a good position with it being the end of the quarter to get the deal you are requesting, what I would do is phone the delivery number and tell them to put a note on your account that you have a specific requirement then when the team that allocates the cars is looking they will see the note and get in contact with you (in theory). I think that is your best option, if the first person you speak to on the delivery line isn't helpful then try again

 

[Glan gluaisne]

From what I remember of being taught about contract law many years ago, to be valid a contract MUST have three parts:

A invitation to treat (the offer from the vendor)

An acceptance of that invitation by the purchaser

An exchange of a consideration (normally the agreed purchase price paid by the purchaser in return for the goods or service as described by the vendor).

In the case of an order, then there is no completed contract until the full purchase price has been paid by the purchaser, and the goods or services have been delivered and found to have been as described. Paying the deposit for a vehicle does not count as being an exchange of a consideration, and the vendor is perfectly entitled to just refund the deposit in full and refuse to supply the vehicle.

I'm not a lawyer, though, and my instruction on contract law was solely in relation to procurement contracts associated with my work, with the intention of ensuring that us technical bods did not accidentally create a contract with a supplier.

 

[yerEVan]

You’ve been waiting since September to get a Tesla then? I.e. they have offered you an AWD LR and I’m guessing you’re holding off?

Having a P3d-, i totally get why you’re bummed. It is the best 3 to have, from my experience (I’m trying to encourage you to hold out until you get what you want, but then again any Tesla is better than none). I thought Europe still had the “-“ always available, as opposed to US.

How far have you escalated the issue within Tesla? Or are you just dealing with the local SC?

 

[NLM3]

Originally, it was the CS team in Holland, who were very apologetic but didn’t do anything. They then escalated to the UK sales and delivery support group for the UK, who have taken the ‘sorry, but hard luck’ line. They are claiming the P3- is no longer offered, not a ‘wait and see’ message.

I’ll be really p’d off when the next P3- appears. What’s the actual difference they can claim between the uncorked LR and P3-? Given the grief they’ve caused, and the fact it’s just a software upgrade, you’d think they’d move.

is there a further escalation anyone is aware of?

 

[hmy7k]

From what I remember of being taught about contract law many years ago, to be valid a contract MUST have three parts:

A invitation to treat (the offer from the vendor)

An acceptance of that invitation by the purchaser

An exchange of a consideration (normally the agreed purchase price paid by the purchaser in return for the goods or service as described by the vendor).

In the case of an order, then there is no completed contract until the full purchase price has been paid by the purchaser, and the goods or services have been delivered and found to have been as described. Paying the deposit for a vehicle does not count as being an exchange of a consideration, and the vendor is perfectly entitled to just refund the deposit in full and refuse to supply the vehicle.

I'm not a lawyer, though, and my instruction on contract law was solely in relation to procurement contracts associated with my work, with the intention of ensuring that us technical bods did not accidentally create a contract with a supplier.

Consideration is required to form a contract but it does not have to be paid for a contract to be formed.
For example payments of a peppercorn. It is in there to provide consideration but is never "paid".

The agreed price is the consideration.
In the OP's case they need to read the contract conditions as it may state that Tesla can change specification of vehicles in fact I would be surprised if they do not cover this eventuality.

 

[NLM3]

The only clause that I can see in the contract that is relevant is that they can cancel the contract “if we discontinue a product, feature or option”. It come down to an interpretation of that clause.

 

[NLM3]

You’ve been waiting since September to get a Tesla then? I.e. they have offered you an AWD LR and I’m guessing you’re holding off?

Having a P3d-, i totally get why you’re bummed. It is the best 3 to have, from my experience (I’m trying to encourage you to hold out until you get what you want, but then again any Tesla is better than none). I thought Europe still had the “-“ always available, as opposed to US.

How far have you escalated the issue within Tesla? Or are you just dealing with the local SC?

I’ve been waiting for them to come up with some sort of deal. I was treated very badly (I know that’s not unique!). I did as they asked, kept checking my account which was at the ‘awaiting delivery’ stage for a couple of weeks, then called because I hadn’t heard anything, to be told “sorry, someone else is driving that car, you’re on a waiting list’. It’s only recently they’ve used the no longer available line. I’d have taken a 3P if they’d have made some allowance, but a set of mats doesn’t come close in my opinion.

Maybe there is another escalation level?

 

[jmaddr]

What’s the actual difference they can claim between the uncorked LR and P3-?

About 0.7 seconds zero to 60...at least marketed. Both stock performance and AWD+ have clocked faster. An AWD+ is supposedly 3.9 and a performance is 3.2.
See if they will do a deal for a full performance?

 

[yerEVan]

I’ve been waiting for them to come up with some sort of deal. I was treated very badly (I know that’s not unique!). I did as they asked, kept checking my account which was at the ‘awaiting delivery’ stage for a couple of weeks, then called because I hadn’t heard anything, to be told “sorry, someone else is driving that car, you’re on a waiting list’. It’s only recently they’ve used the no longer available line. I’d have taken a 3P if they’d have made some allowance, but a set of mats doesn’t come close in my opinion.

Maybe there is another escalation level?

Not sure if you can escalate via your online account any further without actually having a vehicle. I would write letters and send to US and UK, but that takes time, and would also call them like crazy to get someone that may have more insight. I.e. inside sales advisor or their manager.

 

[NLM3]

About 0.7 seconds zero to 60...at least marketed. Both stock performance and AWD+ have clocked faster. An AWD+ is supposedly 3.9 and a performance is 3.2.
See if they will do a deal for a full performance?

I have had several exchanges with them, including looking for a deal on a P. They’re not playing, relying on the no longer available part. It’s a matter of principle for me at the moment. The LR and P3- are differentiated by software, which is zero marginal cost for them to give to me, and I’d be happy with the uncorked LR - I think I need some legal stance if I’m going to get anywhere. I’ve applied to their sense of decency, and got nowhere.

 

[Kenz]

Get over it.
Quit looking for something for nothing.

 

[NLM3]

I’m not looking for something for nothing. I’d like them to honour the deal we made.

 

[Andrew_SE23]

I’d like them to honour the deal we made.

There was no deal agreed by Tesla that extends to a promise of the car for the full purchase price. This is your interpretation of what you consider fair.

You have the right to return the car for a full refund within 7 days of purchase, so is it not only fair that they can change their mind before purchase?

 

[Glan gluaisne]

There was no deal agreed by Tesla that extends to a promise of the car for the full purchase price. This is your interpretation of what you consider fair.

You have the right to return the car for a full refund within 7 days of purchase, so is it not only fair that they can change their mind before purchase?

Sadly, that's my interpretation of the legal position. We had something far more minor when building our house, in that I ordered a matching set of kitchen appliances (two built-in ovens, induction hob, built-in microwave) and paid for the lot with the order. The hob and two ovens arrived, but they apologised and said that the matching built in microwave had been superseded by a newer model, and they could either supply that (for the price we'd already paid, so a small saving over the new price) or refund us for the microwave only. The snag is that the appearance of the new model doesn't match the oven it's paired with in the same unit, it has differently styled controls, front panel etc.

We had lots of exchanges with the supplier, but the bottom line was that we could not persuade them to take the whole lot back and give us a refund, which is what we wanted, so that we could have matching appliances. They would only refund the money for the microwave, or supply the newer model at no extra charge.

We'd already ordered all the kitchen units, with apertures sized to fit these appliances, so we reluctantly had to accept the non-matching microwave. It's bloody annoying, having spent a lot of time and effort in deciding what to order, but the bottom line is that sh*t happens, and you can either walk away or accept the best compromise that's on offer.

 

[Rooster6655]

Tesla are a mix between Apple and Amazon excluding one important factor, they have the best technology and can deliver a load of products but their customer support is worse than a 2nd hand car lot selling clapped out bangers.

 

[DJP31]

If there is something in inventory that meets your requirements, with a software tweak if necessary, I would badger the hell out of them on Monday and whenever they are open next week.

If you can’t get them to budge at this time of the year that I’m afraid you never will. Delivery numbers at year end are mega important and it is is the best time to be negotiating.

If you manage to get a deal that needs a software tweak I would not be leaving the delivery until I could confirm it has happened.

Good luck. Great cars shambles of a company.

 

[rotor2k]

You're basically arguing with sales staff that have zero power of their own, demanding they sell you a model that no longer exists. It's not their fault that the P- was withdrawn, even though it's "only" software. I'm pretty sure Tesla has the right to cancel your order (there'll be a term buried in the T&Cs) and refund your £2,000. Yes it sucks that you missed out, but miss out you did.

You're giving yourself a lot of unnecessary aggro over something that has an extremely low likelihood of going your way, for what amounts to not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, over a car that you would probably enjoy just as much (the LRAWD).

Or just cancel your order and wait! You never know, they may reintroduce it! And if Brexit is as amazing as we all hope it is, the pound will drop, Tesla's prices will drop, and you'll be better off. But you won't have had the enjoyment of the LRAWD all that time that you waited...

 

[rotor2k]

Tesla are a mix between Apple and Amazon excluding one important factor, they have the best technology and can deliver a load of products but their customer support is worse than a 2nd hand car lot selling clapped out bangers.

I'd say Apple-like products with the opposite of Amazon-like service.

 

[Tam]

...they gave the car to someone else...

I am not a lawyer but there's a document about your deposit:

"The Order Fee and this Agreement are not made or entered into in anticipation of or pending any conditional sale contract."

It seems to say that there is no sale contract just yet and don't anticipate one after you submitted your deposit.

It sounds like the only way you can get a sale contract is when you fully paid for it.

Since there's no contract, there's no breach of contract.

It sounds like there won't be any lawyer taking your case after they read the deposit terms and conditions.