Anyone paid for Model 3 charging yet?

[McRat]

The worse part of California EVs and the CPUC? They have made it so I will no longer offer free EV charging at work between 8am and 6pm, M-F. I refuse give into eco-terrorist demands.

My July single family homes electric consumption was about 600 kWh for the month, and I over generated about 2x that amount as a gift to my neighbors. With net metering, and my solar panels, my monthly bill has been about $10.71 total every month for the last 18 months.

You choose to live in a 5,654 sqft home in the desert with electric heated towel warmers, a basketball court sized electric sauna, and no solar panels.

Heres a novel thought: Lifestyle choices can impact your expenses! A little downsizing goes a long way.

RT

What is your CEC-AC peak? Let's say you have 10kW PV-AC output at 5:30pm in June. If you were industrial, and you plugged in a 48 amp Tesla charger, you would be billed an additional ~$26.32 the instant it made the connection. This is NOT kWh's. You cannot deplete it with PV kWh production like you can night-time kWh use. It is a fine. If your house is also using 10kW at that hour for cooking, TV, AC, the fine is $52 that month regardless if you produce 2x the energy you use.

It is the most anti-EV move the CPUC has ever made since a DCFC at a Tesla Supercharger can be a $2100 fine per user. So 4 cars plugged in at 5 pm going home? $8400 on that month's bill + whatever kWh are actually used. The faster the charger, the higher the Fine to Power-usage ratio climbs.

I imagine big companies negotiate with the government>utility via political donations, or requested behavior by the corp. But don't expect small and medium businesses (up to 200kW peak) to allow anything but low power L1 or L2. The fine it too steep to allow fast charging. It would be cheaper to buy their EV and resell it, and buy them a gas car and give them a free gas card.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think you need to look more closely at your monthly bill.

I'm also on RRTP and also have solar. As others have already pointed out, the effective marginal per-kWh price is much higher than $0.035/kWh. That number is only the energy supply portion.

Even if you exclude the monthly capacity charge (which you shouldn't), your actual average marginal price is probably no lower than 8 cents. And it's probably higher depending on your usage patterns.

Thanks @jsmay311

I normally don't post any personal data, however I want to set the record straight for those looking to possibly install / invest in solar. BTW, you can track my "live" solar progress below in my signature.

Below is a photo of my current bill. Keep in mind that we have used our Central Air Conditioner EVERY DAY (constantly) in the last billing period as it has been very warm for the past 2 months here in the Chicagoland area.

So..... at the top.. you will see that I consumed 841kWh to my house and pushed 1121kWh to the grid for the month. . NOW keep in mind that when my solar panels are providing electricity to my home.....that energy isn't included in either the comsumed kWh's or the push kWh's because its a wash. In other words if my fridge required 2kW for an hour and my solar panels produced 2kW for an hour my usage and bill would be 0 ( nothing used and nothing provided to the grid ). With that said...my solar panels produced much more than 1121 that it supplied the gird. 1121 is the amount of kWH's my panels pushed to the grid - "over and above" what the solar panels provided for my home.

Now 841kWh is what my home required at night or on extremely cloudy times of the month.

NET = 300kWh that I provided to my neighbors house that ComEd charged my neighbors for. LOL

Anywhoo..... My supply charge is charged at 4.69477 cents per kWh Delivery is charged at 3.484 cents per kWh.

Bottom line is that my total bill for this month is -$82.44

The total excess credit kWh is totaled at $1,727.01 so far this year. Every year ComEd usually pays me the excess credit on March 1'st.

Lastly...for those anticipating using Solar City..my bill might only end up at $0 at the end of the year because the price of renting / leasing solar panels is about the same money I would recoup from ComEd year ( approx. $2500 ). Solar City is high on the lease side. My son and I installed ours system ourselves and it passed all inspections and such. It took us 3 days.

BTW and interconnection agreement is good for 20 years. I'm 4 years in. ComEd can not retract the agreement.

 

[Garlan Garner]

ANNNND there's the problem! Instead of conveniently charging at your home for a couple of dollars, you'd rather drive to a Supercharger and sit for a half-hour instead of giving up a "freebie"? It's that attitude which encourages Tesla to only put Superchargers at inconvenient locations on the outskirts of cities.
I hope you can use the time you spend (yes, time has a cost!) at the Superchargers calculating your total cost per mile, including depreciation, you spent to get the "free" electricity. I'm reminded of the folks who drive ten miles each way to save a dollar or two on some back-to-school items, completely ignoring their costs to "save."
Perhaps the lovely winter weather in Chicago will incentivize you to stay home and charge.
We enjoy nice weather in Arizona and actually have a Supercharger about 8 miles from home but never use it even though free and unlimited; our "free time" is too valuable to sit at a Supercharger when it is just so much more convenient to charge at home for a couple of dollars. I think that was the attitude Tesla had in mind when they offered free Supercharging, mostly for long-distance trips.

No. No..

I won't drive to a SuperCharger. There are 2 superchargers that I pass on my way home every day. One of them is 1 mile from my job and the other one is 5 miles from my house. My job is exactly 49 miles from my home. ( thank God for my future autopilot on my Model 3). Each Supercharger stop would only add about 30 seconds extra to exit the off ramp of the expressway plus the short charging time.

I believe I would use about 1/3 of the battery each day. That should only take about 10 to 15 minutes to charge at a Super Charger. Now once I get my car....I might change my mind. Who knows?

Also... I also purchased the plugless charging option from plugless charging. I'm not sure how that's going to work, but I'm going to try it. I ordered the Model 3 plugless charging hardware ( even though it hasn't been created yet ) about 18 months ago when they had their super 70% off super duper promotion.

 

[TexasEV]

Plugless charging in a garage. Now there's a solution in search of a problem.

 

[McRat]

Plugless charging in a garage. Now there's a solution in search of a problem.

It does make walking around the garage safer, especially in the dark or when you're carrying a large object and can't see the floor. Ask me how I know.
It also makes forgetting to plug in a thing of the past. You have a puking kid, or need a toilet, or house phone ringing, etc, can have you jump out of the car and be distracted long enough to forget to plug.

Now granted it's rare. But it's like many luxury features. More money = ease of use, even if rarely used.

 

[chronopc]

ANNNND there's the problem! Instead of conveniently charging at your home for a couple of dollars, you'd rather drive to a Supercharger and sit for a half-hour instead of giving up a "freebie"? It's that attitude which encourages Tesla to only put Superchargers at inconvenient locations on the outskirts of cities.
I hope you can use the time you spend (yes, time has a cost!) at the Superchargers calculating your total cost per mile, including depreciation, you spent to get the "free" electricity. I'm reminded of the folks who drive ten miles each way to save a dollar or two on some back-to-school items, completely ignoring their costs to "save."
Perhaps the lovely winter weather in Chicago will incentivize you to stay home and charge.
We enjoy nice weather in Arizona and actually have a Supercharger about 8 miles from home but never use it even though free and unlimited; our "free time" is too valuable to sit at a Supercharger when it is just so much more convenient to charge at home for a couple of dollars. I think that was the attitude Tesla had in mind when they offered free Supercharging, mostly for long-distance trips.

The fact that you have to pay to use the supercharger network is why I don't think with the roll out of the Model 3 will cause long lines. I don't plan on ever using a supercharger unless I'm on a road trip. Like you say it's much more convenient to just charge at home.

I can see people who lives close to the supercharger network who do have free charging to take advantage of the superchargers rather than using home charging. Some of the superchargers are conveniently located to restaurants. So why not if it's free and you are going to be around the area anyways.

 

[gambit48]

I can see people who lives close to the supercharger network who do have free charging to take advantage of the superchargers rather than using home charging. Some of the superchargers are conveniently located to restaurants. So why not if it's free and you are going to be around the area anyways.

The more I think about it, the more this may be me. I live in an area where there are 2 Superchargers within 5 miles of each other. My local utility company also is widely known to suck (PG&E). I may just pop on by to the Supercharger and take the $0.20/kw charge for a few minutes on quite a few occasions.

 

[tomas]

No. No..

I won't drive to a SuperCharger. There are 2 superchargers that I pass on my way home every day. One of them is 1 mile from my job and the other one is 5 miles from my house. My job is exactly 49 miles from my home. ( thank God for my future autopilot on my Model 3). Each Supercharger stop would only add about 30 seconds extra to exit the off ramp of the expressway plus the short charging time.

I believe I would use about 1/3 of the battery each day. That should only take about 10 to 15 minutes to charge at a Super Charger. Now once I get my car....I might change my mind. Who knows?

Also... I also purchased the plugless charging option from plugless charging. I'm not sure how that's going to work, but I'm going to try it. I ordered the Model 3 plugless charging hardware ( even though it hasn't been created yet ) about 18 months ago when they had their super 70% off super duper promotion.

No No, YOU aren't getting it. If you do not NEED to stop at a local supercharger, you should not. They were created and located to enable distance travel. Not so you can arbitrage pennies off your electric bill. Just wait until you NEED a supercharger on a road trip and you have to wait because a local guy is saving 5 cents per kWh.

I commend you on your solar setup. Wish you would carry same spirit to superchargers.

 

[hill]

One of the members that posts here periodically gave an enlightening example of California electricity costs, on another forum. It shows how there's by NO MEANS, a meager 9¢ - 35¢ per kWh for large power draws;

".... for this site cost almost $1 per kWh with all fees rolled in, including maintenance of a significant debt of $10,000 to get new electrical service. That means the COST to power a Nissan LEAF could be $24.00, and up to $90.00 for a Tesla Model S/X. That doesn't include the cost of the $30,000.00 charger, plus the fees to OpConnect for networking, plus any cost for the site, plus maintenance, plus insurance, etc.

The peak usage at this site is 410kWh per month, with an average of 190kWh.

Here are a list of "Schedule 23" fees:

MONTHLY

$ 23.90 - basic fee for 3 phase power
$ 35.00 - Load Size Charge, $1.20 per kW over 15kW, assume 45kW peak
$120.00 - Demand Charge, $4.03 per kW over 15kW (2 highest 15 minute kW periods in previous 12 months)
$ 3.50 - Reactive Power Charge, $0.65 per kW, approximately 5 KVAR units used
$ 80.00 - Line Extension Contract Fee, based on $10,000 owed, paid at 20% of usage billed
$ 3.00 - System Usage Fee

COST OF ELECTRICITY

$0.0254 per kWh - Energy Distribution
$0.0450 per kWh - Transmission / Aux
$0.0314 per kWh - first 3000kWh
$0.0300 per kWh - other fees
=====
As you can see, the cost of DC fast charging is far higher than many people believe. In fact, it is so high as to rule out any serious possibility of being implemented to scale on a for-profit basis.
..........snip...........
Besides the cost of electricity, the single largest expense is the "demand fee". This is generally assessed for any load over 20kW for a 15 minute period. Most DC chargers operate over 20kW, and certainly will be operating for more than 15 minutes.

So, using a $25 per kW at a site that can pull almost 500kW like a Supercharge with 8 stalls will cost $12,500 per month, every month, just for the demand fee. . ...."

Can someone please confirm/refute this?
Based on the above - it seems like Tesla truly has to eat a significant chunk of change, pretty regularly when one counts into effect big fat demand fees, no?

I did pay for Supercharging with my X. It came without free Supercharging, before Tesla decided to give it to all X and S owners. I'm one of the few with truly free Supercharging (not priced into the car price and free to use) .......snip.......

not priced into the car . . . . hmmm, wasn't it recently announced that the price of the X was dropped a few thousand ... not too dissimilar an amount from days of long ago (40kWh MS), when one could pay a flat fee to add supercharging. Of course, the official price drop word was that it's due to manufacturing efficiency increases. Maybe a similar efficiency can drop the M3 down the road?
.

 

[Garlan Garner]

No No, YOU aren't getting it. If you do not NEED to stop at a local supercharger, you should not. They were created and located to enable distance travel. Not so you can arbitrage pennies off your electric bill. Just wait until you NEED a supercharger on a road trip and you have to wait because a local guy is saving 5 cents per kWh.

I commend you on your solar setup. Wish you would carry same spirit to superchargers.

That's just absolutely not true. Elon said specifically during the earnings call and during the Model 3 release that they are installing SC's for local charging with apartment dwellers in mind. He said that.

Also...you are assuming that I'm doing it for the money. I am not. I will certainly try it out and like I said...I might keep SC'ing and pay for it if I choose. I'm not going to SC if I'm in someone's way or something....but I'm going to indeed SC.

If its not potentially bothering anyone I'm not sure why anyone would care. Its my money.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Plugless charging in a garage. Now there's a solution in search of a problem.

I'll tell you how it works out. Leaf owners are raving over it. I don't know any Tesla owners yet.

It looks more convenient and there is nothing to remember.

I'll let you know.

Meet Plugless | The Wireless EV Charging Station

WOW, we really know how to tear something down.

 

[tomas]

That's just absolutely not true. Elon said specifically during the earnings call and during the Model 3 release that they are installing SC's for local charging with apartment dwellers in mind. He said that.

Also...you are assuming that I'm doing it for the money. I am not. I will certainly try it out and like I said...I might keep SC'ing and pay for it if I choose. I'm not going to SC if I'm in someone's way or something....but I'm going to indeed SC.

If its not potentially bothering anyone I'm not sure why anyone would care. Its my money.

Yep agree next target for SCs is apartment and condo dwellers. That buildout not yet clearly evident, but good. You and I with a house should not local charge there though, or it will crowd out the cliffdwellers who need it. I've heard this "I'll only use if available" before. Impossible to tell. I've seen 12 bay chargers go from 4 cars to waiting line in 15 minutes. If you are staying with your car, you can move on, but I've mainly seen this near malls and local people are gone for lunch or shopping. So others wait. It's a problem in CA, which means a coming problem in rest of country as 3 rollout quadruples volume.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yep agree next target for SCs is apartment and condo dwellers. That buildout not yet clearly evident, but good. You and I with a house should not local charge there though, or it will crowd out the cliffdwellers who need it. I've heard this "I'll only use if available" before. Impossible to tell. I've seen 12 bay chargers go from 4 cars to waiting line in 15 minutes. If you are staying with your car, you can move on, but I've mainly seen this near malls and local people are gone for lunch or shopping. So others wait. It's a problem in CA, which means a coming problem in rest of country as 3 rollout quadruples volume.

Indeed.

How ironic is it that Teslarai had an article about this today.

Tesla to expand Supercharger and urban charger network for apartment dwellers in cities

It kind of goes against what Tesla's website says concerning SC'ing , however I believe Elon as represents Tesla's viewpoint that they are caring for local charging not just long distance charging. The function / mission of the SC network has changed.

 

[S3XY]

I would use it if its the same price as my home electricity rates....because I'm sure I will exhaust the extra energy I'm putting back into the grid with my Model 3.... maybe. We will see.

I'm certainly going to use up anything that is FREE at the Super Charger. Like the first 400kWh or something like that. I can't remember what Tesla is offering for free.

At the moment there's no mention of any free supercharging for Model 3 owners. On the other hand, there's no mention that there isn't.

 

[vigge50]

I believe you have missed the point, Tesla don't intend to make profit on the superchargering program but to get money for expanding the supercharger network from todays 6 000 to 15 000 in the end of next year they need a lot of money. Above that they also need money to service existing station as not every tesla owner is taking care of the chargers and they therefore need to replace the contacts sometimes.

 

[Rkoroma]

Simple questions:

Has any Model 3 owners out there paid for Tesla Supercharging yet?

How does that work for you?

How much per kwh?

The other day I was speaking with a Tesla Rep on the live chat asking about charging and if we could get free Supercharging with referrals as well. Answer was we do not know as of now. Then I asked about Supercharging cost and he showed me the calculator on teslas website Tesla.com/charging which showed pricing for Nema and Wall connector which will be the same price per KWH Supercharging. This is how much I would spend on Los Angeles, CA per KWH. With Model 3 at 310 miles fully charge and only charging battery to about 80% I'd estimate it won't around $10 per charge

 

[Shock-On-T]

That's just absolutely not true. Elon said specifically during the earnings call and during the Model 3 release that they are installing SC's for local charging with apartment dwellers in mind. He said that.

Also...you are assuming that I'm doing it for the money. I am not. I will certainly try it out and like I said...I might keep SC'ing and pay for it if I choose. I'm not going to SC if I'm in someone's way or something....but I'm going to indeed SC.

If its not potentially bothering anyone I'm not sure why anyone would care. Its my money.

You are welcome to do it, but it's a hard way to make money.
If you're charging at 90kW (about max rate at lowish state of charge), you'll be making 90*0.15=$13.50/hr.

Another way to look at it is if you want to pay for your commute (about 100 miles), you'll need to charge about 30kWh each day, which will take 20 minutes and save $4.50. Call it 30 minutes because you have to exit, park, and you won't always get 90kW speed.

If adding 30 minutes to your daily commute is worth $4.50 to you then go for it!

 

[ModelNforNerd]

That's for model S and X which are still free and unlimited.

That's why I was asking for real Model 3 owners to provide some real data. Teslas website isn't correct.

There are less than 100 "wild" Model 3s. They're all owned by employees and investors. I suspect we won't get the minute little details we want until non-employees start getting their cars in October.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I get what you are saying, however what I'm asking is this:

If one power company charges .02 kwh and the other charges .12 per kwh - IN THE SAME STATE......what is Tesla going to charge? .33 per kwh?

Is Tesla supposed to be competitive?

In many states, Tesla is not allowed to charge for power, as that would make them a utility. In those states, you pay for the time you're plugged in.

 

[hill]

Indeed.

How ironic is it that Teslarai had an article about this today.

Tesla to expand Supercharger and urban charger network for apartment dwellers in cities

It kind of goes against what Tesla's website says concerning SC'ing ......snip......

perhaps it's ok (won't be throttled) if apartment dwellers just fill from 1/3 to 2/3's - rather than regular top-off's ??
.