AP 2.0 Bait and Switch?

[Tam]

...Why does Tesla presume we want to be their beta testers...

Tesla didn't even show a demo whether AP1 could evade traffic cones in a closed track test or not but people still paid up in advance since 2014.

Tesla did show driverless demo on a video clip but there has been no independent car reviewers to test that out but customers still pay up in advance even when they know that function is not working right now.

As long as people are willing to pay for a dream then Tesla will continue to sell a dream.

And if you are patient enough, Tesla will fulfill your dreams that you already paid for. There's no doubt about it!

 

[Mike's X]

The problem with your post is you use similar deceptive tactics to try to gain sympathy for your position. Where you talk about things completely unrelated to AP, but then at the end it's suddenly about AP. AP has nothing to do with the vast majority of what you wrote about.

I guess I really don't know what I am talking about. I really keep saying all I want are the safety features LCA, Blindspot, collision avoidance on now. The other stuff can come when it comes, I don't care, I wasn't going to use autosteering anyway. I apologize if I am confusing features, I assumed what I was talking about was related to AP 2.0

 

[nagypite]

He/She doesn't want the car
It is obvious...

 

[Canuck]

He/She doesn't want the car
It is obvious...

We know that it's the "why?" we're trying to figure out.

I'm willing to cut Mike some slack. Tesla did do a really lousy job of informing people regarding how it would be activated, if the word "inform" can even be used. I just don't think "bait and switch" applies and blaming the accident was too much. At the same time, we shouldn't so readily discount his, and others, concerns over this issue.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I guess I really don't know what I am talking about. I really keep saying all I want are the safety features LCA, Blindspot, collision avoidance on now. The other stuff can come when it comes, I don't care, I wasn't going to use autosteering anyway. I apologize if I am confusing features, I assumed what I was talking about was related to AP 2.0

There are AP safety features that comes with every car (like AEB, collision avoidance, etc), and then there are EAP features that only come if you bought that package. Like TACC is part of the EAP.

I'm a little confused about why you don't have blindspot monitoring. I thought they released an update for that awhile ago. Are you sure you don't have it?

TACC is probably the most important part of AP, and you should have that within the next week or two. Based on the latest Elon Musk tweets. With that you should also get FCW.

If it was me the one I'd be the most irked about is AEB, but AEB is a challenging feature (it's always on) where you absolutely have to minimize false positives.

 

[Tam]

...I really keep saying all I want are the safety features LCA, Blindspot, collision avoidance on now...

Those require Autopilot sensors which requires over-the-air activation which is being done to a first 1,000 cars right now and hopefully yours will be activated soon.

As mentioned earlier about reading your owner manual, you will be disappointed if you depend on the technology right now because crashes still happens with AP1 features (You got AP2 hardware but paid for AP1 features and its limitations).

That's why owners are paying for AP2 in hope of better safety features.

 

[Tam]

...it's the "why?"...

I guess he wouldn't be complaining loudly if he did not encounter a collision while driving in reverse gear.

I guess he assumes by paying lots of money for technology, that collision should never happen.

If so, someday technology will help even the blind from causing a car crash but that is still a "few" years away, not now.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I'm not a fan of Mike's tactics here, but let's not be Fanboys either. We all know that the average X is highly unlikely to get working lane departure warnings, auto collision braking, and blind spot monitoring in the next few days.

They'll likely be working. Now, will they be perfect? Certainly not. Will they be as good or better than the equivalent AP1 features? Highly unlikely. Will they be better than equivalent features on some cars from some other car companies? Possible.

There remains months of work on the standard safety features, and years on the self-driving tech. Over time they will get bettter and better.

 

[liuping]

I bought the car NOT for autosteering or self driving, but because it has safety features like lane change assist, blindspot warning (horrible blindspot in a cayenne by the way), and other things.

Funny you mention those two particular features. Neither of which are very good in AP 1.0, and will be far superior in AP2 when it's rolled out (and improved further in future iterations)

AP 1.0 has no side or rear camera for AP, so lane change assist means YOU have to look and make sure everything is clear before using the turn signal. It's a nearly useless feature. With AP 2.0 you will eventually be able to just use the turn signal when you want to change lanes, and it will change when it is actually safe to do so.

The blind spot warring in AP 1.0 is completely useless. All it does is light up some indicators on the dash board indicating there might be something near the side of you car. They also light up feverishly if there are any bushes or stubs along side the road, even 2-3 lanes over. With AP 2.0's side camera will be able to actually see cars in the blind spot, and the dash display will eventually show you the positions of cars all around you.

If those features were really at all important to you, you are very lucky. You got AP 2.0 HW and will eventually have far superior version to what you would have gotten if you did get the AP 1.0 HW you actually ordered.

 

[Ferrett]

Be happy to swap my May 2016 Model X for your current X. I'll pay an extra $10k for it. Let me know if you are interested. Mine is 90D. Assuming yours is the same or more. Message me

- Michael Soo

 

[liuping]

I'm not a fan of Mike's tactics here, but let's not be Fanboys either. We all know that the average X is highly unlikely to get working lane departure warnings, auto collision braking, and blind spot monitoring in the next few days.

Technically, the average Model X owner has AP 1.0 (based on sales before and after HW 2.0 came out), so they already have those features.

For the AP 2.0 HW people, it's already going out some. It very well could be on more than 1/2 of the AP 2.0 HW cars by the weekend.

 

[Paul in PalmCity]

Wow Mike, you must not be a avid tech user. If you were you would know that tech rarely ships with no bugs. Manufacturers get capable hardware out the door then they tweak the software and offer firmware upgrades to better the product. Sadly many folks rarely ever check for newer firmware on mfr's site and never upgrade - instead living with a product that doesn't perform well. Tesla has taken that to a whole new level by eliminating the need for you to check a website - instead they present an icon at the top of your display indicating you have a fix or upgrade of systems waiting for your permission to install.

I purchased a X P100D on 12/27/16 and have a few minor things that I'm getting addressed on a service call (my first) next week. I specifically waited so that any/all issues that surfaced in my first few weeks could all be addressed at once. I have been driving very high-end vehicles for years and truly miss Distronic type cruise control that I had on my MB-S550 and S-63 (adaptive to traffic ahead). However, I'm a patient guy - as I know Tesla is taking on a HUGE task of rolling this tech out and at the same time being very careful not to accidentally install software that might hurt the car, or worse, hurt someone.

If you have purchased a 4K TV in the last year you have yet to see much in the way of 4K content, even though the demo in the store showed GREAT 4K video, you likely only have a few sources and very limited content. The same is true for your new X. Time will solve these problems and it will solve them safely and properly. You were NOT bait & switch sold a 4K TV, neither were you sold a bait & switch vehicle. Far better to have the new AP 2.0 hardware - believe me, that hardware is WAY more capable than the old hardware, it's just going to take a little bit to get the features we all desire ready for "prime time".

As for your accident - that is all on you and plain and simple was very stupid on your part. You should NEVER trust the tech to keep you from an accident like this one. Any new tech should always be evaluated carefully and if anything seems wrong then not trusted at all. Consider your accident a wake-up call on adopting technology. From your explanations I would gather that you would have quickly put the car in autopilot (had that been delivered with the car) and then not paid as much attention as you should have. So, consider the $15k a small price to pay for learning how to trust, or not trust technology. I'm confident that when autopilot does get rolled out you will not be so trusting and therefore far more attentive at the wheel.

Patience will yield pleasure - their time to deliver will yield more safety for all of us.

 

[brkaus]

I wish there was a counter on teslamotorsclub.com - number of people that -

1) Got AP2.0 hardware that doesn't function as well as AP1.0 at this time and were ripped off.

vs

2) Got AP1.0 hardware the week before AP2.0 hardware came out and were ripped off.

 

[muleferg]

Gallo Brothers would say"Drink No Wine Before It's Time" Still waiting for update

 

[Xmen]

Mike I empathize with your frustration with the lack of basic safety features in these cars. You will find many on this forum quick to defend Tesla and its advertisibg practice as "common practice" in the tech world. While it may be common practice, this does not make it right. I hope Tesla takes steps to address this in the future. I also hope the new software update will activate many of these safety features but I wouldn't be surprised if it is late again. It will be released when it is ready I suppose...

 

[Krugerrand]

Yup I'm leasing, and again, I bought the car NOT for autosteering or self driving, but because it has safety features like lane change assist, blindspot warning (horrible blindspot in a cayenne by the way), and other things.

Everyone, stop harassing the OP. He quite obviously needs these features on his car.

 

[BestRadar]

I am in the same boat and I was very annoyed that I felt I was lied to. Tesla put out a video of its self driving vehicle in October and sales reps really made me think the vehicle I ordered in November would get this functionality when I ordered it. I was also never told that the vehicle would actually have 1/3 less range in the cold weather and that the battery would not charge at the posting charging rates if it was cold and the battery was not in optimal conditions. I was not told that Auto Wipers would not work and auto high beams would also not work not to mention other safety features that are not enabled.

At this point I will wait patiently another few weeks and if in another few weeks these functions are not enabled I will be requesting a refund for the $8000 I pre-paid for features I was not given. Don't get me wrong I like the car but I bought the car because of what they showed me it could do. To date Tesla is pushing there AP 2.0 video's and its on the website showing expected December 2016 and they are touting all the safety features not activated. I guess what I am more upset with is that there is no communication from Tesla and the only information we can find is what is posted on these forums from other members. What would it take for Tesla to send a simple email to all users waiting and give us some update?

I also do not think its fair that those AP 1.0 users waited almost a year in a the past and it should not be an excuse that they waited so new users should also wait. What Tesla needs is some accountability for setting and meeting deadlines. Their customers would be extremely happy if Tesla would start to under promise and strive to over deliver. I personally feel they over promised knowing that they could not deliver but they wanted the Q4 sales numbers so they had their sales reps do what was necessary to meet those sales numbers.

 

[Vitold]

Yup I'm leasing, and again, I bought the car NOT for autosteering or self driving, but because it has safety features like lane change assist, blindspot warning (horrible blindspot in a cayenne by the way), and other things. I am paying for features that don't exist - Great if they all come on line in 1 year - but that is already into a substantial portion of the lease and I am driving the car without substantial safety features that were the ORIGINAL INDUCEMENT to get the car in the first place. Our Ford C-Max plug in hybrid has more features working than this Model X that won't fit in the garage and has hypersensitive front obstruction sensors

"ORIGINAL INDUCEMENT' was that you'll get the features at some point in the future, probably mid December. You've bought a proverbial cat in a bag I suppose because you trusted that Tesla has the best tech and does deliver on their promises. I suggest you give them little bit more time as such deployments are not linear and you should expect all features you are looking for enabled once initial calibration is done.

In the end I think your wait will be greatly rewarded. It appears that safety features are tied to AP which means that they will be better and smarter (less false positives) than on other vehicles.

 

[muleferg]

Is this not enough warning?

 

[BestRadar]

Is this not enough warning?

View attachment 209931

Isn't the car supposed to be on top? Just curious because I have seen mine switching around also. Sorry to go OT.