AP1 vs. AP2

[Maximapolak]

Would you get the iPhone 5 if the 7 were out already?

 

[justg0]

Have you verified that cost? I assume that since they raised the price of a 60 by $2,000 and that the difference to upgrade to a 75 is now only $6,500 that an after the fact upgrade would now cost you $7,000.

Checked - upgrade is still 9K and not 7K.

 

[justg0]

Would you get the iPhone 5 if the 7 were out already?

I actually have a 7 plus - have had a new iPhone every year. But it is not a valid comparison. iPhone 5 has much smaller screen, the camera is really not good. And a phone costs less than 1K and not 80K

The two cars I am looking at are identical except for AP. And if I was paying full price for AP1, like some people did who ordered just before cut-off, I would be pissed. But here I am getting a 8% discount, which allows me to get a bigger battery.

 

[TLej]

I will probably be the only one to say this, but I would get the AP1 car unless you plan on getting rid of it soon. Evrything about it is known, whereas everything about AP2 is unknown. I haven't even activated Autopilot on my car, regular cruise control is good enough for me. I miss nothing about not having Autopilot, since I've never used it. I can try the 30-day trial if I want, and activate it OTA any time for a small premium over what it would have cost when I ordered it.

Of course, it might depend on your traffic situation. I was just at Disneyland for a few days on vacation, and after only a couple of experiences with Anaheim/LA traffic, I get why all the California guys love it. Seems ideal for the bumper-to-bumper gridlock that I experienced. Where I live, our roads are nowhere near as congested; I regularly commute using regular cruise control without having to alter speed for the 30 minute commute.

YMMV. No wrong choice here, but I would take the extra range over Autopilot any day. In fact, I did when I got my 90D.

 

[JClu]

You have a bit of dilemma on your hand (but what a nice dilemma to have!). Here is my 2 cents, tho keep in mind this is coming from an AP1 owner who took delivery a few weeks before the AP2 announcement.

Contrary to what some people have claimed, I don't consider AP1 "so out of date." As you have pointed out yourself, Tesla's AP1 is still superior than any other manufacture's AP on the road currently. It will continue to do what it's designed to do: maneuvering the car according to the TACC and line markings. Just because AP2 does more does not render AP1 useless.

I have found myself not using AP as much as I thought when I simply test drove the car. As many others have experienced, a Tesla is too much fun to drive to give up most of the control to a computer! Sure, if I was taking an 1,000-mile trip, I'd rely on AP to do the boring stretches to reduce my fatigue. Otherwise around town, I'd like to stay in control.

Taking an inventory car with deep discounts makes great financial sense. I took an inventory car that was about 85% of my studio-designed car for that reason. However, I did not have your current dilemma of AP1 vs AP2.

From what I've read so far, there are still quite a bit of uncertainty with AP2 (actual release date, how buggy it may be, etc), not even considering the even more advanced FSDC. I think it's great all the Tesla's from now on will have the hardware to support AP2, but there may be some software kinks that need to be ironed out.

 

[theslimshadyist]

Just go with your gut.

 

[justg0]

I have 3 really very good choices. My AP2 car is going to be build 1st week of December and I will get it by Dec 20. I can switch to AP1 and I have 2 options there. A brand new AP1 that has 7.5% discount and another that has 1500 miles with a 8% discount. I was at the dealership again today - my sales advisor is probably sick of me by now, just couldn't decide still. I also talked to their sales manager and they said these discounts are very similar to September discounts and he has never seen them in past 4 years.

I won't be using AP in my daily commute as very little is highway driving. I do a 220 mile trip every couple of weeks or and then in summer I drive around quite a bit for my golf tournaments and I think a bigger battery would be more useful to me vs. enhanced AP. I can always use AP1 on highways for longer drives.

My sales manager was a bit order guy. Said he still not activated his AP1 on his Tesla as he loves to drive the car so much.

So definitely leaning towards going with AP1 75D (not a popular option here) and saving some cash.

 

[Footer]

I have 3 really very good choices. My AP2 car is going to be build 1st week of December and I will get it by Dec 20. I can switch to AP1 and I have 2 options there. A brand new AP1 that has 7.5% discount and another that has 1500 miles with a 8% discount. I was at the dealership again today - my sales advisor is probably sick of me by now, just couldn't decide still. I also talked to their sales manager and they said these discounts are very similar to September discounts and he has never seen them in past 4 years.

I won't be using AP in my daily commute as very little is highway driving. I do a 220 mile trip every couple of weeks or and then in summer I drive around quite a bit for my golf tournaments and I think a bigger battery would be more useful to me vs. enhanced AP. I can always use AP1 on highways for longer drives.

My sales manager was a bit order guy. Said he still not activated his AP1 on his Tesla as he loves to drive the car so much.

So definitely leaning towards going with AP1 75D (not a popular option here) and saving some cash.

The biggest discount now for the 75D looks to be $8800. Median discount is about $6000. 98 cars to choose from plus more that aren't posted no doubt. These discounts weren't so big a couple weeks ago.

September 75D discounts were typically $7500. I'm guessing Q4 discounts will go up even more as many buyers consider these cars obsolete and it's in Tesla's best interest to move them ASAP. The prices will only go down. Should be fun to watch EV-CPO.

When do you have to make a decision? What options are you getting?

 

[justg0]

I want to decide pretty soon, hopefully by tomorrow. I am looking for awd, pano and next gen. The AP1 cars have premium upgrade over my currently ordered 60d.

I considered at the car in Florida, but I would rather get locally to avoid paying 2k shipping.

As far as the discounts, it's possible they may still get better, but I would rather get my pick now.

 

[Burnt Toast]

I'd consider it for a 90, but not a 75. Your 60 is a 75, you were happy with 60 when you bought it, and now for a few more miles range (which if you really want, you can unlock at a later date if you really need them) you are willing to sacrifice functionality and resale.

The face of the matter is, that AP1 is done. I doubt that any additional functionality will be introduced, (I doubt it will ever had the talked about GPS guided offramp navigation, no wording ever said it was for AP1, just that it was coming in 8.1). But with AP2.0 you will have enhanced and safer autopilot (with blindspot detection that actually works), and possibilities for expansion. It's possible that surround view camera functionality and dash cam access will be included. Summon is going to be much more advanced, its going to be a better solution all around. I'm not sure what resale is like where you are, but here in Australia, all the Pre AP1 cars that were put on sale 6 months ago, are still for sale now. The AP1 cars get snapped up straight away, but in 6 months time, it's likely that the AP1 cars will be the ones still for sale 6 months later.

 

[Canuck]

There is no regulatory approval needed for this as long as the driver is still in the driver's seat. Regulatory approval is needed for driverless use under the Tesla Network system.

This is not true. AP1.0 required required regulatory approval and it had a driver in the seat. With AP2.0, there are only two options: Enhanced Auto Pilot (EAP), and Full Self Driving (FSD). With regard to ordering EAP, the website reads:

Enhanced Autopilot software is expected to complete validation and be rolled out to your car via an over-the-air update in December 2016, subject to regulatory approval.

So of course, regulatory approval is required even with a driver in the seat. What we don't know is if it will obey lights, stop signs, turn, park, etc. right out of the gate, or if those will only come with time. The AP2.0 cars currently on road have no AP at all. Elon Musk tweeted recently that the update to activate EAP should come in three weeks.

Unless money is a concern, I can't see any reason anyone would buy an AP1.0 car given its lack of sensors and slow processor. I couldn't relax while using it on a loaner for a week, and doing a lot of highway driving. I've been waiting for AP2.0 to upgrade but now I can't decide whether to upgrade now or wait for it on my Model 3 since I plan to keep my large frunk, free supercharging, 80 amp, Classic S and replace our Leaf with another Tesla.

 

[justg0]

I do have concern about resale, hence the question about how much discount is AP1 worth it. I am currently getting around 7k off. Seems like a good deal for a brand new ap 1 car.

The other way to look at it is to get the 75d range, I will need to pay 9k to upgrade. With the discounts now, I can get that for free, but in return give up on AP2.

Yeah, I was pretty happy with my decision to go with 60D AP2 until tesla decided to do these crazy discounts.

My son just came up with a simple reason - why do you even need autopilot if you know how to drive. Ha!

 

[justg0]

Unless money is a concern, I can't see any reason anyone would buy an AP1.0 car given its lack of sensors and slow processor. I couldn't relax while using it on a loaner for a week, and doing a lot of highway driving. I've been waiting for AP2.0 to upgrade but now I can't decide whether to upgrade now or wait for it on my Model 3 since I plan to keep my large frunk, free supercharging, 80 amp, Classic S and replace our Leaf with another Tesla.

I think the point you are missing is that there is more to Tesla than AP. AP2 is only 5k, so a in terms if percentage a small part of the overall package. I drove AP1 on highway and felt very comfortable with it. It has now been used for 2 years, so has the bugs ironed out. And I will use it only sparingly on my long drives. Daily I would rather just drive the car.

 

[Canuck]

I do have concern about resale

Then be very concerned AP1.0 or 2.0.

2.0 will do better, but these vehicles are not investments. They are depreciating assets, and very quickly at that.

 

[justg0]

Then be very concerned AP1.0 or 2.0.

2.0 will do better, but these vehicles are not investments. They are depreciating assets, and very quickly at that.

Exactly. I see both cars pretty much depreciating the same over a period of 4 years. So I am just looking at right now I can get a better value for AP1 for which a couple of months ago most people paid full price.

 

[Canuck]

It has now been used for 2 years, so has the bugs ironed out.

You can't iron out all the bugs when it lacks sensors and processor speed. You must always be alert and pay attention:

Now, admittedly, we don't know if AP1.0 was activated but it certainly looks like it. We also don't know if the changes made recently would now prevent this and the Florida fatality. But I can live with myself killing me. I can't live with my vehicle killing me. If I must be constantly alert due to lack of sensors and slow processing, I might as well drive myself. Then again, I missed out on AP1.0 so it might just be cognitive dissonance on my part.

 

[Canuck]

Exactly. I see both cars pretty much depreciating the same over a period of 4 years. So I am just looking at right now I can get a better value for AP1 for which a couple of months ago most people paid full price.

For now, yes. But down the road you will have an AP2.0 vehicle with free supercharging, which will be much rarer than all AP1.0's for sale. So you'll probably break even in the end and you will also be to enjoy AP2.0 while owning the car. You might even be up a bit (compared to the savings on an AP1.0 car).

 

[Troy]

Whatever you buy now, don't cancel your Model 3 reservation. It is likely that you will switch to the Model 3 anyway.

• Model 3 75D will have more range than the Model S 75D (305 mi EPA vs 259 mi EPA)
• Model 3 75D will have a quicker 0-60 time than the Model S 75D.
  
• It might have a solar roof like Elon said here.
• It might heave heads up display.
• The front fascia of the current Model S and X might be replaced with the Model 3 style. The Model 3 design is more modern and more aerodynamic.

 

[justg0]

You can't iron out all the bugs when it lacks sensors and processor speed. You must always be alert and pay attention:

Now, admittedly, we don't know if AP1.0 was activated but it certainly looks like it. We also don't know if the changes made recently would now prevent this and the Florida fatality. But I can live with myself killing me. I can't live with my vehicle killing me. If I must be constantly alert due to lack of sensors and slow processing, I might as well drive myself. Then again, I missed out on AP1.0 so it might just be cognitive dissonance on my part.

Tesla clearly states for both AP1 and AP2, the driver is responsible and must stay alert. I am not at a point where I am going to not be alert or not in control with either autopilot option. For the above crash to happen, it is completely drivers fault in my opinion. He or she was not paying attention.

 

[justg0]

Whatever you buy now, don't cancel your Model 3 reservation. It is likely that you will switch to the Model 3 anyway.

• Model 3 75D will have more range than the Model S 75D (305 mi EPA vs 259 mi EPA)
• Model 3 75D will have a quicker 0-60 time than the Model S 75D.
  
• It might have a solar roof like Elon said here.
• It might heave heads up display.
• The front fascia of the current Model S and X might be replaced with the Model 3 style. The Model 3 design is more modern and more aerodynamic.

Agree. No way I cancel that.