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Apple: Rumors of EV to Challenge Tesla or Buying Tesla

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I wouldn't say I believe in any kind of inherent Apple superiority, but there's no denying they put way more engineering effort into details and polish. For example, rather than stick a generic fan into a Macbook like other OEMs, they go out of their way to study rotor designs and airflow to design better custom fans. Magnetic laptop lid that can be lifted with one finger, rather than generic latch design. Magnetic power connection to prevent tripping accidents. These are a few small examples of better designs that one can appreciate without being a blind Apple faithful.
Agree 100%. I am convinced that an iCar would include many ingenious implementation details and improvements over the state of the art.
Just as in the case of Tesla the skateboard design is brilliant. The huge center console. The door handles. The charge connector. The supercharger network.
In this Apple and Tesla are similar and as I said before, I would welcome Apple to insert its design skills (and its cash pile) into this market.
I was simply criticizing the (as I read it) somewhat blind believe that they somehow would be automatically better and superior in this completely new (to them) market.
At the same time I agree scaling up mass vehicle production is not a place Apple has expertise in. It's easy to forget that manufacturing the touchscreen console in the Model S is in itself already as complicated as making an iPad and that's a relatively easy part of Tesla's process - and even that is outsourced to Foxconn. Apple would have almost as much growing pains as Tesla in the car market, albeit anaesthetised by generous applications of cash.
So it seems that you and I very much agree here. Making cars is really hard. Making the iPhone is also hard - but doing the latter doesn't mean that you are great at doing the former. But the cash that was created from the iPhone/iTunes franchise sure will help
 
You didn't get my point.

iPhone is not a weird phone. I would say Apple knows more about design and no compromise approach than anyone else. Remember Elon took out the reading lights from back? I cannot imagine Apple doing that. A simple and small example. Yes, Elon brought back the reading lights after one of his sons complained.

Yes going far to compare Model s with kias is not right and I would not like to hear as well. However, that's been discussed many times elsewhere by many. I only hear iPhone copycats.

About manufacturing, Apple has many patents and share them with foxconn to build their devices. The camera tech to find the best cover that'll fit current assembly module is Apple manufacturing patent.

I like Tesla more than Apple with EVs because of its mission and a great leader, but looking back 10 years, I wouldn't count Apple out.

And you didn't get my point.

Never called the i-phone weird.

Design is uncompetitive in the mobile phone,lap top, tablet space.

It was never a focus for the electronics industry.

There is a large space to be both beautiful,functional, and unique in electronics .

There is no such space in automobiles.

I wouldn't count Apple out either.

Neither would I crown them market leader five years before Job #1 .


With Apple's massive resources I would give them a leg up in giving the market a more refined product with Job #1 like reading lights,grab handles,coat hooks, storage nooks etc.

But I doubt the performance of a Model S. That is the result of the passion of one man. Not the measured result of a committee.
 
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pGo: Can you elaborate on what "camera tech" means and how it works? As in Thanks.

Apple has 100s of manufacturing patents. I don't have time to find exact patent matching this case, but I've read articles talking about this specific case. Here is the apple video of iphone 5 release where Ive talks about it. APPLE iPhone 5 - Official Video Commercial (by Jonathan Ive SVP Apple Design) - YouTube Check at 5:30. When I saw Model S issues with roof noise, I felt that such a process would be helpful.

My point is that even though Apple does not manufacture its products, it wants the products to be built specific way using specific process.

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And you didn't get my point.

Never called the i-phone weird.

Design is uncompetitive in the mobile phone,lap top, tablet space.

It was never a focus for the electronics industry.

There is a large space to be both beautiful,functional, and unique in electronics .

There is no such space in automobiles.

I wouldn't count Apple out either.

Neither would I crown them market leader five years before Job #1 .


With Apple's massive resources I would give them a leg up in giving the market a more refined product with Job #1 like reading lights,grab handles,coat hooks, storage nooks etc.

But I doubt the performance of a Model S. That is the result of the passion of one man. Not the measured result of a committee.


I disagree with following:
"Design is uncompetitive in the mobile phone,lap top, tablet space.

It was never a focus for the electronics industry."

Companies have tried so many things to get to where we are today. With wearables, it will change soon in electronics. Companies try harder to design and there are as many if not more user-groups involved to find what button goes where compared to car industry.

I am not making Apple #1, but I am saying they have a very good chance if they think they have a compelling reason to build a car.
 


Companies have tried so many things to get to where we are today. With wearables, it will change soon in electronics. Companies try harder to design and there are as many if not more user-groups involved to find what button goes where compared to car industry.

I am not making Apple #1, but I am saying they have a very good chance if they think they have a compelling reason to build a car.

For electronics firms design means ergonomics not aesthetics.

With the exception of some microniche products aimed at teenage girls mostly, electronic firms have not tried to design something beautiful.

The most recent Galaxy phone is a half hearted attempt. After years of selling a comparable spec smart phone for less money and not realizing the profits they were expecting.
 
Hey folks, I did not intend to start a match between Apple fanboys and Tesla fanboys. Lets be careful not to attack each other.

What my question is aiming at is what sort of capabilities might Apple possess that could enable it to grow a car business at a sustainable rate above 50%. Many people question whether Tesla can pull that off, but that begs the question whether anyone, even Apple, can pull that off.

So far one poster has ventured a hypothesis. pGo has proposed that essentially Apple's design and aesthetic capability along with sophisticated quality control in manufacturing could enable Apple to double is auto revenue for many years running. Correct me, pGo, if I have misrepresented your post.

I would like to hear other hypotheses. My own hypothesis, a null hypothesis if you will, is that not even Apple can grow any faster than Tesla because the same supply chain and manufacuring challenges that limit Tesla would also limit Apple. So while I have no doubt that Apple could design wonderful cars that would attract plenty of enthusiatic buyers, given the enormous complexity of making EVs, Apple too will find it quite difficult to scale prduction at the rate of 50%. In particular, given that Apple prefers to outsource most of their production, we have to question whether each and every supplier for Apple cars could scale above 50%. We've heard it said that it take thousands of parts to make a car and only one missing part to not make a car.

So I'd love for my null hypothesis to be proven wrong, primarily because I'd like to know there is a better way for Tesla to scale faster. If my null hypothesis stands, then this may be an ego barrier for Apple to enter this market. They would enter with nearly everyone expecting them to be able to blow past Tesla, after all they've got all that design talent and obscenely large piles of cash. But when they too struggle just to keep pace with Tesla, it could be a bit humiliating for Apple, and the attempt to save face could blow through cash at an alarming rate to the chagrin of Apple shareholders, of which I am one. So does Apple have the nerve to take this reputational gamble? We shall see.
 
One of the stories from the Model S entering-production-years was that the auto makers today have spun off nearly everything besides engine design & manufacture. Every other car part is available from a supplier from windows to wipers. (This was told in Marc Tappening's video Co-Founder Of Tesla About Starting Tesla (VIDEO) | CleanTechnica). But one of the early problems Tesla had was that the suppliers didn't believe them when Tesla ordered 20,000 of a part. Instead they only made a thousand or so, and so Tesla didn't have the parts they needed!

Apple wouldn't have this problem going in. Their deep pockets would have suppliers lining up, and Apple would be paying for new factories with exclusive use, just as they do for electronics.

Would Apple need barriers just like anyone else? Sure. Did Apple pitch in some $$ for Tesla's gigafactory? Time will tell.

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BTW the iPhone 4 "Antennagate" was overblown. They offered cases to everyone to mitigate it. Which was actually a pretty generous thing for Apple to offer that kind of support to their customers. Not everyone took or needed a case. The iPhone 4 sold—caseless—successfully for 3 years, and the external antenna design lasted for 4 generations.
 
I disagree with following:
"Design is uncompetitive in the mobile phone,lap top, tablet space.

It was never a focus for the electronics industry."

Companies have tried so many things to get to where we are today. With wearables, it will change soon in electronics. Companies try harder to design and there are as many if not more user-groups involved to find what button goes where compared to car industry.

I am not making Apple #1, but I am saying they have a very good chance if they think they have a compelling reason to build a car.

For electronics firms design means ergonomics not aesthetics.

With the exception of some microniche products aimed at teenage girls mostly, electronic firms have not tried to design something beautiful.

The most recent Galaxy phone is a half hearted attempt. After years of selling a comparable spec smart phone for less money and not realizing the profits they were expecting.

I am siding with pGo on the design issue. Most devices and often cars are functionally quite close to each other, making meaningful differentiation difficult.

Car and devices are highly personal items. My car, phones and laptops (and tablets) feel like personal extensions which I do not wish to share with anyone. For me, the design is one of the most significant and important differentiators, for any personal item.

Physical characteristics, including visual, often prevail for many people when making purchasing decisions.

I find Apple products beautiful. When I first saw McAir, I bought it on impulse, on first sight. I hardly use it. That subconscious effect of design is not to be underestimated. I see the design as one of the Apple's competitive advantages.

Regarding Tesla Model S design, I do find it beautiful, but I do not find it visually standing out amongst other cars as much as some Apple products stand out amongst their competition.

Design is not Tesla's competitive advantage. Many cars can beat it in that category.

In my view, Tesla differentiates itself by the simplicity and elegance of its powertrain the most, and then by some other features. The main differentiator is that it does not use gas.

So here we have two very different companies, established Apple that focuses on design and growing Tesla, that focuses on manufacturing and innovation.

If I were Apple, I would try to buy Tesla. Tesla brings to the Table what Apple wants.

If I were Tesla, choice is a bit more difficult. Apple can bring so much to the table for Tesla, but the Tesla's main focus on innovation might be channeled onto a very different path under Apple's wings. That is a risk that perhaps at this stage Tesla does not need to take. Future can be different than today.
 
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If I were Apple, I would try to buy Tesla. Tesla brings to the Table what Apple wants.

There does not have to be a buyout. There is another option; organized collaboration often known as a partnership. Best of both worlds, just as the Gigafactory will be. People are selfish, but when they can get past that and work together on a common goal the possibilities become endless.
 
In a comic book reality. Apple invents a mini fusion core, aptly called "apple core" that powers all icars and infrastructure effectively taking the ironman title away from musk and removing any dependency on low tech oil/batteries. Rules supreme as they usher in a new era of transportation overnight. And apple being apple, will not be sharing such IP leaving the rest of the auto industry to fight for the rest of the market share. Tesla will withdraw as their goal has been accomplished. Musk re-focuses in spacex and invents the hyperdrive. On a freak mission gets infested by a symbiot and identifies approaching hostile aliens. So he becomes death. The destroyer of worlds.

In actual reality, there's only 1 ironman that is fighting the battle. Will he summon the rest of the avengers to combat the biggest threat to humanity? Stay tuned.
 
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BMW is one manufacturer that is not working with Apple to build an EV:

BMW Denies Report of Electric Car Discussions With Apple - Mac Rumors

"The BMW spokesman said: 'We are in regular talks with companies from the IT and telecommunications sector, including Apple, concerning topics like connected vehicles. Developing or building a car is not a topic of these discussions.'"
Well, technically he just said that "developing or building a car is not a topic of the regular talks with companies from the IT and telecommunications sector". He didn't actually say that they weren't talking (in highly non-regular, secret talks) about this topic :)
 
A few Tesla questions & dodges by Tim Cook at the annual Apple shareholder meeting.

Roundup: CarPlay, Tesla, diversity and more at Apples annual shareholders meeting | 9to5Mac

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