JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I didn't think it was quite that negative, just pointing out the change that may be needed if you normally do a lot of long distance driving in an ICE. EV's aren't quite ready for everyone yet.
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Articles re Tesla—Fact or Fiction?
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
- Start date
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
She also put out an article about the experience, where she goes into a bit more detail than the video:
Tesla Model X P90D Review
Tesla Model X P90D Review
Here's a quote: "I once filled my battery to 212 miles for a 205-mile trip but had to charge it again partway through."
Planning to arrive at destination with 7 miles of charge remaining after driving more than 200 miles? The problem is not the vehicle, it is the driver's expectations on how accurately mileage can be predicted. Unfortunately, many non-EV drivers will not understand that this is a newbie speaking, making a newbie mistake. I'm sure if she drove the X longer she'd figure things out. If would only have taken another 5 minutes to add 20 miles as additional buffer.
If Tesla is smart, they will personalize the AI in the software- knowing how that driver on that route will normally drink-
then deliver the better juice estimate.
They need to work hard with this kind of ability to take the guesswork and user education out of the user experience whenever possible
There are times when my Model S navigation system says I have enough charge to proceed to the next station when the reserve is estimated at about 10% of capacity (24 miles in my case). Adding an extra 20 miles reserve typically only takes about 5 minutes of additional charging. My hope is that Tesla will suggest more realistic reserves in the future. The Tesla nav system is set up for minimizing time at the charging station, but I've received instructions to return to the original station for an additional charge too often to trust the nav system's judgement. BTW, I have never returned to the original station for an additional charge because I have adjusted speed or drafted behind a semi as necessary to arrive at the destination with adequate reserve.
Thanks - I've heard similar from others. I think there is much room for improvement in most all situations. I agree the assumptive should be more conservative on reaching destination rather than time in charge. Thanks again
I don't know how you would ever have a Supercharger telling you "2 hours remaining". In my 3 years of Model S ownership I have never had one tell me more than maybe 75 minutes. Could it have been an old/out of date one? Or still ramping up the power so showing a longer time than usual?
Whether actual or not, she certainly played up that long charge, and then harped on it repeatedly when talking about "being prepared to join the electric tribe", etc. And since she only had the car while driving long distances in relatively remote, hilly areas with winding roads (LA to Santa Barbara to Big Sur and back, along the coast), range anxiety (and inaccuracy) looms large, plus she never had the chance to experience overnight at-home charging and always waking up to a "full tank". Unfortunately given the fact that most houses/condos/apartments aren't wired for 240V, it will be rare for any reporter to be able to experience that, even at home.
I wish Bloomberg had comments, so we could point out some of those issues. Maybe we should email her, politely of course.
There are a few ways, but the one I suspect was at play in this video was the "just plugged in and ramping up" one. When you first plug in, Supercharging takes a minute or so to reach full charging speed. In that time, the charging estimate is usually off by a bit. I have to believe that this was intentionally used to bolster the narrative that you describe above.
If it was very empty, and plugged into the other side of a supercharger pair with another car already charging, it would be quite easy to see that. But the reality is that it wouldn't last very long, and anyway, you never wait for the last 10%. I've seen it say things like 1:40 upon first plug in, and be down to 30 minutes about 5 minutes later.
It appears that the young lady picked the lease optimum charge station.
There is a comment section if you go to the link above in the first sentence.
CNBC just put out a big hit piece on TSLA:
Tesla stock is not a buy—no matter what earnings say
There's not much new: Bob Lutz speaking how the big manufacturers are going to walk all over Tesla, how Tesla loses thousands on every car they sell, how Tesla competitors will be losing money on competing vehicles.
Here's a classic Lutz quote: "The majors are going to accept the losses on the electric vehicles as a necessary cost of doing business in order to sell the big gasoline stuff that people really want. Well, Tesla does not have that option," Lutz said.
What is new is that they found someone at Panasonic, the Chief Engineer of Panasonic Eco Systems, to basically say that Elon Musk is getting ahead of himself by claiming that certain utility solutions are viable.
The hit piece includes everything including the kitchen sink and even quotes the risk factors from the 10Q, claiming these risk were conveniently buried in the 10Q to keep investors from realizing the real risk involved.
A fellow named Michael Pento put the hit piece together.
Tesla stock is not a buy—no matter what earnings say
There's not much new: Bob Lutz speaking how the big manufacturers are going to walk all over Tesla, how Tesla loses thousands on every car they sell, how Tesla competitors will be losing money on competing vehicles.
Here's a classic Lutz quote: "The majors are going to accept the losses on the electric vehicles as a necessary cost of doing business in order to sell the big gasoline stuff that people really want. Well, Tesla does not have that option," Lutz said.
What is new is that they found someone at Panasonic, the Chief Engineer of Panasonic Eco Systems, to basically say that Elon Musk is getting ahead of himself by claiming that certain utility solutions are viable.
The hit piece includes everything including the kitchen sink and even quotes the risk factors from the 10Q, claiming these risk were conveniently buried in the 10Q to keep investors from realizing the real risk involved.
A fellow named Michael Pento put the hit piece together.
The Blue Owl
Endangerous Herbivore
The CNBC piece is nicely complemented by this Wall Street Journal article that has just been published.
No need to read it; I've summarized it below for you:
No need to read it; I've summarized it below for you:
...dwindling cash issues...production issues...unconventional leader...cult-like following...harsh short-term reality...years of losses...burned through billions...quarterly results won't be pretty...burned through $2.9 billion over the past six quarters...analysts expect negative cash-flow until 2018...nosebleed 130 times projected earnings...accident waiting to happen.
Brough to you by the WSJ, fair and balanced as usual.
There is a brief shot in the video showing the X charging and only one other car charging, not in the same pair as her car.
She appears to have driven the car down to far less than the 77 miles she noted it was at when she decided to look for a Supercharger (clearly indicating that she hadn't bothered to plan her route at all) and then I believe she set it to charge to a very high level, 100% or close to it. That is the only way that the center display could show it would take 2 hours to charge.
Of course you never drive a Tesla that well. You spend a few minutes planning your route -- if it is going to be over 200 miles away and you won't be returning home that day to plug in as you normally do -- and then you do not arrive at a Supercharger with only a few miles remaining, as she must have done.
Really a very poor "review": content free and only demonstrating a deep ignorance on the part of the reviewer. She obviously didn't ask anyone at Tesla anything about how to drive the car long distance. Or she simply ignored what she was told.
The solution is to dumb it down for ICE drivers. The battery will have only five readings: full, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, empty.
I think Tesla set themselves up for this by using the "miles" metric in the first place instead of percentages. This leads people to think that the car will go the distance it's displaying and then they have to recalibrate their expectations.
It has also resulted in everyone obsessing about "losing" range. If Tesla just used percentages from the start, people wouldn't even know if their battery was degrading.
After a week, she should have known to drive with the energy usage screen up along with the Nav. That way you can see your range based on how you're driving against the remaining miles on your trip. It's possible to leave on a 207 mile trip with 219 miles of charge if you know how to drive. As long as you manage your speed and energy usage, you should be able to get more than the rated range.
My ICE cars have never told me precisely how many miles I had left on a tank. It was always an estimate based on the rated range. If I sped, I got less than the car said I was going to get. The only reason this matters in an EV is the current paucity of useful charging locations.
My ICE cars have never told me precisely how many miles I had left on a tank. It was always an estimate based on the rated range. If I sped, I got less than the car said I was going to get. The only reason this matters in an EV is the current paucity of useful charging locations.
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