The 350kw at the shell roadhouse in Keith seems to be super reliable also.
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Aussie queues this long weekend
- Thread starter Gayle S
- Start date
It’s WIP… but no sign of any ground being broken yet. It’s sorely needed. As will the 15-stall site at Raymond Terrace.
I actively avoid doing road trips on long weekends or school holidays now unless I can get by without doing a fast charge on the way (i.e. drive no more than about 450 km in the day), or am off the major highways and risk of charger contention is low. I have no desire to be a queuing statistic if I can avoid it.
Max Spaghetti
Member
It's a chicken & egg argument. Nobody wants to invest heavily in charging infrastructure (including Guvmints) if there are no EV's. The financial incentives certainly kick started EV sales over the last 12 months (particularly the FBT exemption). But I agree, I predict the right-wing news headlines over the next couple of years will be enjoying displaying the queues of EV's at chargers over holiday weekends as evidence that EV's are useless.
I am constantly dismayed seeing single stall chargers still being installed around the place.
That's a bit mean - at the time I bought my M3 RWD the LR version was $13K more, plus I would have missed out on the VIC gov rebate of $3K - meaning a $16K premium just for about 80km extra of real world range which I don't need (and a subwoofer and an extra motor I don't need).
I have stopped every 2 hours on every road trip I have ever taken in 35 years of driving (I was taught to do this, and continually agree with the concept. Fatigue kills). So I would be stopping anyway regardless of my EV range. Yes, the extra 80km would give me more options on a holiday weekend, but not $16K worth.
And no, I don't charge to 100% on the road.
Max Spaghetti
Member
Stopped at Campbelltown last night at 9.30pm. Was 2x model y with 1 leaving just as we pulled in. Had all 12 to myself.
Wanted to goto another few sites today and had a look around and the highway run between Canberra and Sydney had busy and wait expected... so might go after dark
Wanted to goto another few sites today and had a look around and the highway run between Canberra and Sydney had busy and wait expected... so might go after dark
I just passed through Port Macquarie and Coffs harbour and I could only describe the charging situation as pandemonium. Port Macquarie was a parking lot with cars queuing there all day including right now. When I was there a few hours ago I counted ~15 cars queued and speeds had dropped to ~60kW. The wait for the six stall charger would have been an hour. The local chargefox was broken and the NRMA charger was packed with people waiting which didn't leave any other options. Unfortunately the Evie at Macksville had a machine down and Taree was queued.
Drove north today.
Left Sydney 5 am and progressively got busier as it got later into the day.
I generally avoid Tesla to try and incentivise other networks to expand.
I got lucky at Coffs, no-one was at the Chargefox at 12:00 that usually has a queue.
I got unlucky at BP Ballina, I yeeted to the closest DC charger on GC. That's after getting stuck in a massive queue waiting for fossil fuel.
I think Tesla drivers generally just follow the car nav and charge where Tesla tell them to. I don't blame them. Optimising trying to find empty 3rd party chargers can be stressful.
On one hand third party networks just don't have enough stalls (especially when 1/2 are working, or in case of Chargefox Port Macquarie 0/2) to handle Tesla directing business towards them. On the other hand, third party networks add important locations such as Taree.
Left Sydney 5 am and progressively got busier as it got later into the day.
I generally avoid Tesla to try and incentivise other networks to expand.
I got lucky at Coffs, no-one was at the Chargefox at 12:00 that usually has a queue.
I got unlucky at BP Ballina, I yeeted to the closest DC charger on GC. That's after getting stuck in a massive queue waiting for fossil fuel.
I think Tesla drivers generally just follow the car nav and charge where Tesla tell them to. I don't blame them. Optimising trying to find empty 3rd party chargers can be stressful.
On one hand third party networks just don't have enough stalls (especially when 1/2 are working, or in case of Chargefox Port Macquarie 0/2) to handle Tesla directing business towards them. On the other hand, third party networks add important locations such as Taree.
Hopefully it does. It is the reality of travelling at peak times. The more bad press it gets hopefully spurs on more investment and more chargers. Problem is there is just no profit in it at the moment which mates companies reluctant to spend big on big number of stalls as they only get use in the peak times.
Would help a lot if Tesla started getting rid of their V2s as they power share once 2 cars are hooked up to the pair and only delivering half power at best which slows the whole process down significantly. 15 cars waiting while the ones on the chargers charge at 75kw max most likely up to close to 100% as everyone is worried there will be a massive wait at the next charger. Would be great if Tesla implemented some sort of charger que in the computer. Would help with knowing who is next to charge.
Like I said earlier, leave the EV at home for peak travel. Just not worth the hassle.
Chuq
Active Member
Why would you hope that something that happens 3-4 times a year gets " made out to be that this situation is normal 24/7/365"?
The charger operators know this. They can see the stats. We don't need FUD articles in the MSM to get the point across.
The other thing to consider is that installation of new fast chargers of this capacity take 12-24 months. They already know about it and in Tesla's case at least we know they are planning for it.
This isn't necessary. All new sites will be V3 so the number of V2 stalls will be insignificant in the long term. No need to waste money and resources pulling them out. Teslas nav system will auto route to the most efficient sites based on how busy they are. People can ignore the nav and go for a V2 site if they are going to have a longer stop (e.g. lunch).
Spending time and effort on something like this (that isn't needed most of the time) is not only a waste of resources, but also causes it's own problems. Someone joins the queue but then changes their mind and leaves but due to some glitch they are still registered as being in the queue. No-one else can charge because according to the system they're not "next". Or someone doesn't get how the queue works, moves into a just-vacated stall, tries to plug in, but doesn't work, and gets stroppy when people tell him to move. Or - one space is ICE'd, the next person in queue is told to charge there, but they can't, and the system assumes that someone who hasn't plugged in after 5 mins doesn't want to charge so they get sent to the back of the queue. There are so many ways for such a system to fail. It's simpler just to build more sites.
What's the point of a Tesla then? Why not just spend 1/3 as much on a second hand Leaf?
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I also wonder if the reason Tesla increased its SC prices was because of the expected heavy long weekend demand
Personally, I think EV drivers just need to reset their expectations. It is ridiculous to expect full and uninhibited access to EV charging stations for one or two long weekends or a few days per year in Australia while the DCFC sit idle for the rest of the year . Even petrol and diesel stations had queues. The Pacific Highway is not the only long weekend destination for people living on the eastern seaboard. There are so many other places worth visiting. Go to where the crowds are not.
Except for one company who single handedly built a DCFC network while the EV market was non existent, and who then became the catalyst for the EV market. Imagine if said company did not build any DCFCs
I wonder how many charged to 100% and I wonder what were the actual wait times and I wonder if there was some element of "get-there-itis"
I also wonder if the reason Tesla increased its SC prices was because of the expected heavy long weekend demand
Personally, I think EV drivers just need to reset their expectations. It is ridiculous to expect full and uninhibited access to EV charging stations for one or two long weekends or a few days per year in Australia while the DCFC sit idle for the rest of the year . Even petrol and diesel stations had queues. The Pacific Highway is not the only long weekend destination for people living on the eastern seaboard. There are so many other places worth visiting. Go to where the crowds are not.
In that case EVs should only need about 200km range - enough for daily driving. This will allow more batteries to be deployed
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I agree. As it stands the current EV charging networks aren't fit for purpose on holiday weekends. They get hopelessly overwhelmed. And the the current Tesla V2 superchargers are pretty crap giving only 60-ish kW when full and yet still charging 70 cents per kWh.
I love my Model Y but i'll be taking a petrol car the next time I have to do a Sydney<->Brisbane run on a public holiday. Hopefully the Taree Supercharger fixes that problem (when it finally gets built).
Chuq
Active Member
I guess it's a bit of a catch-22, given the congestion results in people being short on time, but did anyone check any of the planned sites on this route?
- Ballina (84 Kerr St, 15 stalls)
- Coffs Harbour (211 Pacific Hwy, 12 stalls)
- Taree (Wynter St, 12 stalls)
- Raymond Terrace (74 Benjamin Lee Dr, 15 stalls)
- Jesmond (Blue Gum Rd, 6 stalls)
I can see you're a full blown EV/Tesla lover. All good. I like them too. Own 2x Teslas.
You need to look past the whole they are perfect the way they are now. If EV is to go mainstream it has a whole lot of big problems to fix and quickly before they get more popular, then piss everyone off and it will be years before you get everyone back on board. It's hard enough as it is now. Tesla can lean on their software advantage to make things easier for sure. All the things you bring up can easily be accounted for. Why not make the user experience better and easier. My experience with quing a few times over the last 12 months is that there is someone who appoints themselves unofficial charger marshall, waves their arms around a fair bit and dictates to everyone where they sit in the line (usually some old grey haired bloke). Everyone else looks at each other and goes F**K this EV thing is C**P and stands around in the sun stranded until they get their turn. 1 person doesn't want to wait and cuts the line as someone else is taking their sweet time to get back to their car to pull it into the charger. Yelling starts. Apart from being a knob there isn't a rule against it.
People travel at peak times. It's reality. Normal, non EV die hards don't want to sit in 90 minute lines with their kids to then charge for 45 minutes just to get somewhere for their holiday, which they have to take at that time due to not getting time off work other times/school holidays/having to pay the bills. They don't want to scour apps and have a plan A, B, C for charger options and get to their accommodation to find the 1 destination charger is not working or there is an ICE in it and there are no other options in their town they are at, apart from finding a random powerpoint in a park or something. They don't want to sit at a crappy olivers on the hume for ages to continue on their trip.
There is 2x people at my work with EVs they have purchased in the last 12 months who have them up for sale due to them being a massive inconvenience to their lives when trying to get away on holidays. They might be convenient for 90% of the time but it doesn't make up for the 10%. ICE will do the 100% as a vehicle. You won't get these people back into an EV for a long long time, and they will tell everyone about it as well. Not everyone can afford to have multiple cars for different uses. Their 1 nice expensive car needs to do everything and not be inconvenient at it, hence why you see so many dual cab utes and SUVs.
EV is not a mainstream thing yet, but it is being sold as it is to people. Infrastructure is not there or anywhere close yet. Single stall 50kw chargers (most maxing at 45kw or so) are all you have through most of Victoria as an example, and they are broken or glitching all the time. I know as I travel about 1000-2000km for work a week in my M3 and it is absolutely painful to have to stop for 1 hour or more in some tiny town with nothing open past 5pm to get a good charge up to continue on for an acceptable amount of time, or alternatively stop every hour for 30 - 40 minutes and that is if there isn't already another car there. Hardly any accommodation have destination chargers (and many don't work) or even a powerpoint to use (which will only give you 100km overnight). Many times I have to ring forward to organise a charge or scour Plugshare for options for an overnighter or multi day trip. 99% of people do not want to do that which is totally acceptable. I persist with the M3 over my Ford Ranger due to the autopilot making doing bulk kms much easier but it is nearly at the point that due to not being confident I can land a charge point without waiting behind another car at the single stalls, the Ranger will be taken out again for the country driving. Waiting at 1am on a Tuesday at Ouyen after there was already a car at Sea Lake was about the last straw recently and signalled that it might be time to swap, especially as I can usually do the run from Bendigo to Mildura without stopping but it was raining and windy so was going to be about -5% on arrival. The Ranger does it and halfway back in 1 tank. I also feel for people on country trips in their Telsa as it doesn't recognize 3rd party chargers so does some crazy routing due to that and the computer % calculation to destinations are wildly inaccurate, usually around 10% out over a full charge so if not watching the consumption screen and looking ahead on the 3rd party apps to see if their chargers are operational, you could find yourself very stranded.
I still feel most people don't really actually get out and about in their EV. Stay about 200km from round trip from home and wax lyrical about how they are the best thing since sliced bread and everyone should have one and you can go 600km on a charge and nothing is a problem. Forgetting that you have basically got a $60k - $90k town car.
Max Spaghetti
Member
On the Vic Hume Hwy, the V2 supercharger site at Euroa seems to fill up on many weekends during the ski season, not just holiday weekends, and it has only 6 bays that slow to about 66kW when sharing. Ironically, the 2x Chargefox 350kW at the Shell just 2km the other side of the highway seems to have lower utilisation despite being faster and cheaper (I guess Tesla drivers tend to use the suggested Nav as someone suggested - last time I was there all 6 Teslas were going south so they all drove past the empty Chargefox 350's, crossed the highway and drove a couple of km to share 66kW each).
BP to their credit have put in 8 stalls across 2 sites at Glenrowan (inc 1 Chademo), although these seem to be 100kW for 1 vehicle down to 75kW when shared. Also 2x Evie 350kW at Avenel about 30km south but 1 of those is usually out of service and it's kind of the last chance when heading back to Melbourne apart from slow singles at Wallan and Broadford, so hard to rely on.
I'm not sure if a major upgrade to the grid supply would be required to upgrade Euroa to V3, but it may not require significant planning/construction works. It would probably help and be cheaper than building a new site. I'm aware of a new supercharger site planned in Benalla, but it'll be a more annoying detour off the highway to get to.
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