Auto Pilot Is Dangerous

[Knightshade]

Honestly, if the Ford Mach-E was available today I would give this car back and pick one up at a local dealer. Don't get me wrong, I love my car and I have the upmost high hopes for Tesla's success....just not at my expense especially for a premium luxury brand. Tesla needs to wake the hell up and realize service is one of the most important part of the auto business, not just sales.

FWIW there's been plenty of reports from "legacy" car makers having 100% crap service for EVs too... Jaguar, VW, etc because almost none of their techs actually know anything about the cars or how to work on em.

Hell VW won't even touch and E-golf unless the service center is in one of the relatively few states they were originally sold in.

Hopefully Ford isn't as bad in this regard, but remains to be seen.

 

[Toppatop55]

FWIW there's been plenty of reports from "legacy" car makers having 100% crap service for EVs too... Jaguar, VW, etc because almost none of their techs actually know anything about the cars or how to work on em.

Hell VW won't even touch and E-golf unless the service center is in one of the relatively few states they were originally sold in.

Hopefully Ford isn't as bad in this regard, but remains to be seen.

Lmao so what your saying is it will be the same as Tesla service minus the 4 hour round trip........I’ll take it.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

a loaner performance model 3 (brand new with 123 miles....Nice)

Well, you're doing pretty well with a nice loaner.

The most important thing right now is to make sure you get positive confirmation and explanation of what was wrong with your vehicle, before you go back to pick it up. They need to be able to reproduce the issue and explain why it was happening...

I think I would have ok'ed them taking the car home if I had been you. Given the intermittent nature of the issue, it sounds like they want to give themselves every opportunity to quickly diagnose the issue.

Hopefully more limited diagnostics are sufficient and they can figure it out.

 

[ash9.58]

"Before I could react" ??????
If hands are on the wheel and the person driving is moving in sync with the car while keeping attention on the road aware autopilot should heighten awareness when in the midst of traffic and kids in the car , that statement is impossible!

 

[Toppatop55]

"Before I could react" ??????
If hands are on the wheel and the person driving is moving in sync with the car while keeping attention on the road aware autopilot should heighten awareness when in the midst of traffic and kids in the car , that statement is impossible!

Instead of indicting me on how I describe my reaction, you should comment on the topic at hand. Regardless of how I reacted or how quick, that doesn’t change the fact that my car nearly drove off the road on autopilot.

A person’s reaction time is relative. Not everyone has spidy reflex like you may. Not to mention, you have to give autopilot some room to play within a lane. If every time it hugs a lane you disengage, that would be stressful therefore defeating its purpose.

 

[DopeGhoti]

Tesla needs to wake the hell up and realize service is one of the most important part of the auto business, not just sales.

One can hope, possibly, that now that 'legacy' automakers (e. g. Ford) are starting to get into the EV game, that some competition might light a fire under Tesla's metaphorical keister in this regard.

 

[ash9.58]

Instead of indicting me on how I describe my reaction, you should comment on the topic at hand. Regardless of how I reacted or how quick, that doesn’t change the fact that my car nearly drove off the road on autopilot.

A person’s reaction time is relative. Not everyone has spidy reflex like you may. Not to mention, you have to give autopilot some room to play within a lane. If every time it hugs a lane you disengage, that would be stressful therefore defeating its purpose.

The "indictment" is not about reaction time because clearly your hands were not on the wheel or your eyes weren't, or both. The indictment is putting your kids in danger. This is autopilot !! It has NOT been perfected, and like anything you've ever owned things can go wrong. There's no telling if it did go wrong because you were not paying attention; if your hands were on the wheel you would've felt the pull out of the lane, if you were looking at the road you would've seen in real time the car leaving the path- reaction time wouldn't've been an issue- did you record the leading events?
I've driven to and fro from NY to Key West twice this year, I95 on autopilot (95%of the time) , I'm very familiar with AP and what situations may cause it issues- I suggest you do the same before putting you life or your children's lives in its "hands".

 

[Toppatop55]

The "indictment" is not about reaction time because clearly your hands were not on the wheel or your eyes weren't, or both. The indictment is putting your kids in danger. This is autopilot !! It has NOT been perfected, and like anything you've ever owned things can go wrong. There's no telling if it did go wrong because you were not paying attention; if your hands were on the wheel you would've felt the pull out of the lane, if you were looking at the road you would've seen in real time the car leaving the path- reaction time wouldn't've been an issue- did you record the leading events?
I've driven to and fro from NY to Key West twice this year, I95 on autopilot (95%of the time) , I'm very familiar with AP and what situations may cause it issues- I suggest you do the same before putting you life or your children's lives in its "hands".

You my friend are an idiot. How dare you accuse me of putting my child in danger just so you can defend a multi billion dollar company who clearly made a defective product. You may argue that 99.9 percent of Teslas are excellent and problem free and I would agree with you, but to presume 100 percent of their product is problem free is absurd and just as absurd is your allegation of me putting my child at risk. In comparison, it would be like saying all iPhones are perfect and anytime your battery drains faster than normal, or your phone bends at the slightest pressure, it's your fault because of user error. This thread is a discussion on what is Cleary depicted in the videos, that is if you actually have watched them. For you to make such stupid pigheaded assumption only shows your lack of intelligence, objectivity and that you're a blind loyalist sheep.

Had I not had my hands on the wheel as you accused, my child and I would probably have been on the news possible as one of the fatality result of autopilot error. The videos I've posted are after the initial experience which also confirms on several occasions that the issue was not just a one time glitch of some sort.

 

[DopeGhoti]

The videos in the OP are important, and were also obtained in just about the safest manner one can reasonably expect someone to perform without investing in (potentially) hundreds of dollars of camera equipment, which is not a reasonable expectation for a lay person to outlay. Being able to document such aberrant behavior is an important step in getting the problem even acknowledged; much less actually rectified, as the OPs anecdotes about his or her SC experiences show: even with these videos, Tesla's CSRs initial reaction seems to be "it's normal to expect some oddball behavior", much like how an internet service provider's CSRs might have an initial reaction of "have you tried turning it off and on again?" when their customers call about problems with their internet speeds for the fifty-seventh time in a week.

CSRs starting with a presumption of incompetence and/or malfeasance (it is commonly uttered in CSR circles that "end-users lie like rugs") is as exceedingly common as it is problematic, no matter how warranted it may seem to be by 90% of their interactions being with people that seemingly could not find the noses on their faces with both hands and a mirror.

 

[drtimhill]

Come on people. The only real issue here is: Did AP behave badly? If yes (and it looks that way based on the video), then Tesla absolutely DO need to be informed, since this looks to be a severe malfunction. It doesn’t matter that its beta, the idea of beta is to FIND (and fix) issues such as these, do it’s important this incident gets reported to Tesla. Everything else is secondary (apart from the OPs kids, of course)

 

[ash9.58]

Come on people. The only real issue here is: Did AP behave badly? If yes (and it looks that way based on the video), then Tesla absolutely DO need to be informed, since this looks to be a severe malfunction. It doesn’t matter that its beta, the idea of beta is to FIND (and fix) issues such as these, do it’s important this incident gets reported to Tesla. Everything else is secondary (apart from the OPs kids, of course)

I litigate for her kids, we all know that the software isn't perfect, and if one heeded the warnings can avoid harm. If the car crosses the center line while on AP, what does it say about the driver, even if it is a software glitch, you tell me? And NO I'm not going to go easy in a life or death situation- there are way to many fools out there texting and driving.

I remember when I think is was Remington who had a faulty trigger on one of it's riffles, the senseless number of folk who got killed and wounded, and yes Remington should and did get sued , but those gun owners didn't follow the first rule of safety owing a gun (and I'm sure there may have been relatively few outliers).

 

[Toppatop55]

I litigate for her kids, we all know that the software isn't perfect, and if one heeded the warnings can avoid harm. If the car crosses the center line while on AP, what does it say about the driver, even if it is a software glitch, you tell me? And NO I'm not going to go easy in a life or death situation- there are way to many fools out there texting and driving.

I remember when I think is was Remington who had a faulty trigger on one of it's riffles, the senseless number of folk who got killed and wounded, and yes Remington should and did get sued , but those gun owners didn't follow the first rule of safety owing a gun (and I'm sure there may have been relatively few outliers).

First thing first, I’m a he. My 8 month old son and I love driving our Tesla lol.

Secondly, im curious how people are able to assume or assert that I was doing anything but paying attention. Despite how engaged you are if your not expecting your car to spontaneously drive off the road, you too would be startled and shocked. The fact that I was doing what I was suppose to do was the only reason. I was able to stop the car from ending up in a ditch. I also realize the videos may appear that the entire ordeal was a smooth veering off the road. I can assure you it is not smooth from I side of the car.

 

[DopeGhoti]

While the videos were taken on public roadways (because not everyone has a private limited-access highway to test on), they were not taken in high-traffic, congested situations where the meandering of AP seemingly put anyone - within or without the M3 in question) in any significant danger.

If the videos were not there, the first eleventeen pages of this thread would be lousy with "okay so where's the video if AP is so awful, huh?" and "pics or it didn't happen, you shortselling troll" posts.

 

[drtimhill]

I litigate for her kids, we all know that the software isn't perfect, and if one heeded the warnings can avoid harm. If the car crosses the center line while on AP, what does it say about the driver, even if it is a software glitch, you tell me? And NO I'm not going to go easy in a life or death situation- there are way to many fools out there texting and driving.

I remember when I think is was Remington who had a faulty trigger on one of it's riffles, the senseless number of folk who got killed and wounded, and yes Remington should and did get sued , but those gun owners didn't follow the first rule of safety owing a gun (and I'm sure there may have been relatively few outliers).

Agreed, but the OP has been castigated enough .. more than people pointing out the AP was way out of line here. I'm totally with the "it's a beta, you are the driver, pay attention" admonitions (I've done a few myself) but my point was the focus should be on getting AP to the point where it doesnt do such bad things.

 

[Toppatop55]

*******update*****

the last contact with the SC, I was informed that the “computer” is being replaced. Don’t know what computer or how that would affect the AP but I’m glad something is being done. Hopefully I can pick up T’Challa tomorrow.

 

[DopeGhoti]

Thanks for the update! Also, I'm glad to hear that they're replacing (presumably) the entire "FSD" computer rather than looking at one subcomponent after another. Fingers crossed that T'Challa's autopilot will have had gone sober going forward!

 

[Toppatop55]

This is soooo frustrating. I was told my car would be ready by 11:15 AM today, so before I made the two hour drive I decided to call and confirm. After an hour and a half. Doc calls and three voice mails left, I was not able to speak with anyone or get a call back. Then it dawned on me that the facility was pretty small and everyone worked in. Lose proximity to one another. So, I call led and pressed number 1 for sales. What do you know,I was speaking with a human in less that three seconds. Ironically, it was the guy I ordered my wife’s model 3 with. He was able to walk to the SC and verify the car would not be ready today and that they still don’t know what’s going on (how comforting is that). Had I driven two hours there to hear that, I most definitely would have lost my sh!t. I made this appointment well over three weeks and took two days off work to make the trip. I’m starting to feel like Tesla thinks my time is worthless. If service is not drastically improved, it will be the downfall of this potentially great company. The Mach-E is starting to look real good right now.

 

[Toppatop55]

*****UPDATE******

This maybe the last post I make for a while because I am going to seek counsel from an attorney.

I just got a call from the SC telling me to come pickup the car because they could not recreate the autopilot issue they would not replace the computer that was ordered and sent to their SC. Can you guys believe this sh!t?? My car was diagnosed, determined that a part needed to be replaced, seal if part was ordered and schedule for install, I drive a total of 4 hours only to be told they would not complete the work. THIS IS BEYOND INSANE. Tesla just forever lost me as a customer. This treatment and behavior is beyond repugnant. Where the hell is the consistency?? Every time I make contact with an employee they don’t know anything about what was previously discussed. This is not a way to run a business.

 

[Az_Rael]

I just got a call from the SC telling me to come pickup the car because they could not recreate the autopilot issue they would not replace the computer that was ordered and sent to their SC. Can you guys believe this sh!t??

I can, unfortunately. I would ask the attorney about persuing a lemon law claim. I know it will probably be complicated for you because if I recall you are in a state that doesn't sell Teslas. You other option is to file for arbitration under the warranty. Tesla has been losing some of those, so it is another option, and one that is non-binding for you but binding for Tesla I believe.

Very sorry to hear this. Tesla is going to kill themselves slowly with this customer service issue. The problem is by the time they figure out what it is doing to sales it will probably be too late.

 

[ash9.58]

Agreed, but the OP has been castigated enough .. more than people pointing out the AP was way out of line here. I'm totally with the "it's a beta, you are the driver, pay attention" admonitions (I've done a few myself) but my point was the focus should be on getting AP to the point where it doesnt do such bad things.

"getting AP to the point where it doesnt do such bad things."

That's without saying! But before then lets protect ourselves-

I finally saw the video- and clearly this situation pops up consistently, the car responds to the reflective lane paint if that's not there it looks for it, that's why eyes should be on the road, it happens too when cars enter the highway, the road is wider then converges to one lane.