Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[MarkS22]

Still don't agree. Even without autonomy, if I'm driving now, I'm where I'm supposed to be, and a pedestrian comes out of no where without paying attention or whatever... I'm going to consider my options. Under no circumstance am I going to crash into a solid object (like another vehicle, building, telephone pole, etc) if my choices are between that and hitting the pedestrian. I'm of course going to mash the brakes and do my best not to hit them, but if I wouldn't otherwise hit something that would damage my car or myself if the pedestrian hadn't been shooting for a Darwin award by heading into traffic then I'm not going to hurt myself or my property to protect them beyond attempting to stop.

You hit the nail on the head. (Luckily it was a nail, not a pedestrian.) Well over 80% of those pedestrian fatalities are from the pedestrian not following rules. This is from a massive study by the DOT. It means the pedestrian made an improper crossing, failed to yield right of way, ran into the road, or failed to obey traffic control. So, 80% of pedestrian fatalities today could be eliminated by just following the rules. Of course, the vehicle should attempt to avoid the accident altogether, but it's still a roadway.

In the end of the day, it's still a net positive. Autonomous cars don't create a problem. The problem is already there today. We should be focusing on the fact that the sensors will see the pedestrian sooner and react quicker. It'll have the ability to save countless lives even without risking injuring the vehicle's occupants. So, why does the bar have to be so high as to delay the introduction of the technology? 89% of accidents don't even involve pedestrians.

 

[tezzla]

Cell phones can be deadly!

 

[wk057]

There is a big difference between right of way and an unavoidable accident.

If I'm doing 15 mph I'm sure I can stop or swerve and give the right of way to the pedestrian. If I'm doing 55 mph that isn't an option.

The pedestrian always has the right of way in all 50 states (laws vary on the penalties and interpretations of this but they all favor pedestrians to some extent).

At the same time a pedestrian is prohibited from walking into high speed traffic, high volume traffic, restricted areas of various types.

You can play grammar nazi or word lawyer all you want it doesn't keep someone from walking in front of a high speed moving vehicle that might not have anywhere to go other than through the pedestrian or into an immovable object.

Pedestrian Killed by Car While Crossing Freeway | NBC 7 San Diego
Pedestrian Killed on Highway 99 now identified - KernGoldenEmpire
CHP investigating fatal Highway 101 crash involving a pedestrian | KRON4.com

and on and on and on

just Google "pedestrian on highway in California" and see how many were fatal for the pedestrian. Be sure to tell all the injured drivers, police, family members, etcetera how the pedestrian had the right of way in the middle of a highway.

I don't think people in general think "oh I want to kill that pedestrian instead of damaging myself or my car" I think they just think "oh ****" and then its over. (like that old comedian said, first you say it, then you do it!).

Well, here for example, most of the speed limits around town here are 35 or 45 MPH. Sure, can stop pretty quickly at those speeds, but not instantly, and definitely with enough time to very quickly make a potentially altruistic decision to avoid the pedestrian.

NC law pretty clearly states that pedestrians don't always have the right away and must yield to vehicles if crossing anywhere outside of a marked crosswalk or at an intersection (marked or unmarked)... so I'm not sure where you get that in all 50 states that pedestrians always have the right of way.

I yield where I'm supposed to yield. I'd never want to kill a pedestrian, but more so I do not want to kill or injure myself or my passengers by hitting something more immovable than a pedestrian that shouldn't be there.

The seemingly selfish monetary standpoint is still pretty valid. If I avoid the pedestrian by hitting a parked car.... the pedestrian I protected, who was in violation of the law, isn't going to pay for the damages/injuries/etc to both vehicles and passengers that resulted from their infraction and the driver's decision to avoid them. They'd be long gone before the police arrived for sure. In a pedestrian-at-fault situation where a pedestrian is injured or killed the driver isn't liable for damages (plenty of case law on this).

And this, my friends, is one of many reasons I have a dash cam in every car I drive. "Your Honor, as you can see from the video footage...."

Cell phones can be deadly!

Yep...

 

[lolachampcar]

The problem with highlighting all those stupid people attempting the Darwin Award is that you have likely been one and/or will be one again some day. I remember being that kid on a bike paying more attention to the mosquito larva I had in that mayonnaise jar then where I was pedaling (right before getting hit by a car). Luckily, the driver was paying attention and not relying on the law to make sure I was attending to right of way. The thing that makes a civilization work is all of us making room for such (learning) mistakes without serious consequence. All the rest is chest thumping........

 

[ohmman]

Some of the postings here remind me of this Freakonomics episode, about how easy it is to get away with killing a pedestrian in a car.

 

[ohmman]

So, why does the bar have to be so high as to delay the introduction of the technology? 89% of accidents don't even involve pedestrians.

This is a perception and control issue. My guess is that even if we show a 90% decrease in casualties with autonomous driving, there will still be enough emphasis on the accidents that do occur that progress will be hindered. That's because we're not in control. When a human makes a mistake, they are more easily forgiven than when an algorithm makes a mistake, even though the algorithm is so much less likely to make the original mistake, and to repeat the mistake after being tweaked.

I hope we can get past this, because it's good for everyone involved. I frequently say that I bought a Tesla because when I was a kid, I swore I'd be in a flying car in 2015. Tesla isn't flying, but at least it's not the exact same ICE car as before. Autonomous is a huge step up, and it's where we need to be on transportation.

 

[mmccord]

I frequently say that I bought a Tesla because when I was a kid, I swore I'd be in a flying car in 2015. Tesla isn't flying, but at least it's not the exact same ICE car as before.

When I'm at a stop light and hit the go pedal, it feels like a jet taking off. Maybe you should have service look at your car? :tongue:

 

[wk057]

The problem with highlighting all those stupid people attempting the Darwin Award is that you have likely been one and/or will be one again some day. I remember being that kid on a bike paying more attention to the mosquito larva I had in that mayonnaise jar then where I was pedaling (right before getting hit by a car). Luckily, the driver was paying attention and not relying on the law to make sure I was attending to right of way. The thing that makes a civilization work is all of us making room for such (learning) mistakes without serious consequence. All the rest is chest thumping........

Sure, and that driver was able to avoid you without damage to himself or vehicle, much like the majority of circumstances in which this would come into play and is the same thing I would do in a win-win situation. The scenarios being described up thread are extreme no-win situations. Had you been riding your bike across a busy 55 MPH road with the same lack of attention we may not be having this conversation today.

I certainly would have a much tougher time with that split second decision in a no-win situation involving a child, no doubt about that. An adult is going to get hit at whatever speed I slide into them at while braking in a no-win scenario like described earlier, but in the end, I don't see a reason for a child to be unsupervised in such a no-win situation anyway... and if they are, well... that's just crappy. I guess we'll find out how far my empathy for humanity extends if I ever encounter such a situation.... which I hope never actually happens.

As for making room for such learning... that's an entirely even more off-topic conversation for another time.

 

[bonnie]

Just to break it up a little in here, a 'highly automated' Model S: Bosch Mobility Solutions

 

[wk057]

Just to break it up a little in here, a 'highly automated' Model S: Bosch Mobility Solutions

Yeah, saw this... pretty nifty... too bad we don't have those sensors

 

[andrewket]

Just to break it up a little in here, a 'highly automated' Model S: Bosch Mobility Solutions

Bosch's website appears to be having problems. I couldn't get the video to play with two different browsers.

 

[Soolim]

Yeah, saw this... pretty nifty... too bad we don't have those sensors

What additional sensor(s) do we need?

 

[gizmoboy]

Yes, it can work on a bidding system, like paid search. The more you pay, the less likely the car will hit you verses the guy you're standing near. For enough money, you can just safely walk across a busy 5 lane highway and watch as the cars swerve and crash into walls and trees around you.

LOL. Please don't give anyone any ideas...

 

[tezzla]

Happy Anniversary!!!!

It's now been 10 months since the autopilot demo (and no software in sight!). :cursing:

Correct math version:
It's now been 9 months since the autopilot demo (and no software in sight!). :cursing:

 

[Sogorman]

Yes, a disappointment for sure. I am at 7,500 miles on my S85 that I bought after the autopilot announcement and the promise of autopilot was a huge factor in my purchase. It is also interesting to see how frequently Tesla would post blog posts and there has been nothing since April 8. Feels like they are feeling the pinch.....

 

[sitter_k]

And don't forget about "self parking".
bmw has beat tesla to the punch now that the 7 series is out with the self pull in to the garage tech.

 

[wk057]

Happy Anniversary!!!!

It's now been 10 months since the autopilot demo (and no software in sight!). :cursing:

Actually i think we've all had a math fail here, myself included. It's been 9 months.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Actually i think we've all had a math fail here, myself included. It's been 9 months.

September to July is 10 months.

 

[tezzla]

Actually i think we've all had a math fail here, myself included. It's been 9 months.

Duh... okay, well it FEELS like 10 months!

 

[commasign]

I thought the D and Autopilot reveal was October 9, 2015 (not September).