Autopilot Near-Collision

[Daniel in SD]

See around the 0:46 mark, had to quickly cancel NoA otherwise it would have rear ended the minivan (AutoPilot was making the car accelerate faster)...

I'm not sure it would have. It feels like that because AP often doesn't brake for cars that are partially in the lane. I bet you hit the brakes before the car was completely in the lane. The funny thing is I also see this behavior and can see on the screen that the vision system sees exactly where the car is. It's super annoying.

 

[Octo]

I had a similar experience on the NJTPK. Traffic was going about 10MPH. I was on NOA and in the far right lane. Cars were merging from the right hand side after stopping for a stop sign (there was construction around the particular highway entrance). There was about 2 car lengths in front of me when an suv tried to merge into my lane. Instead of stopping, NOA tried to close the distance to the car in front of me almost causing me to side swipe the merging suv. Of course I took over prior to that happening but was surprised my car didn’t slow down to let the merging car in.

Did you check if the “Dallas” option in the Autopilot menu was disabled? It’s next to the “Mad Max” option.

 

[C141medic]

Did you check if the “Dallas” option in the Autopilot menu was disabled? It’s next to the “Mad Max” option.

Just checked and I had the NY/NJ/PA option turned on

 

[Ben W]

The Toyota owner must have neglected to purchase the optional "turn signal stalk". For the life of me, I don't understand WHY folks don't purchase the turn signal stalk???

I bet he ran out of blinker fluid

 

[Ben W]

Can I assume that those of you who are using Autopilot on "surface streets" know that this system is not designed or approved for that use? It states pretty clearly that these Autopilot functions are to be used only on limited access roadways.

Highway 1 is a highway. (Though granted, it can be a fuzzy distinction.) There were no street signs or traffic lights or intersections (on this stretch), just linear traffic flow. This ought to be Autopilot's strength, not its weakness.

That said, of course I was paying attention, and took over when required. I was just surprised to see that I had to take over at all in this situation.

 

[Ben W]

This wasn't really a situation that required AP to take evasive action, just slowing down a bit to let the guy in (which is what a human driver would have done). Another example of AP "supervised" by a human being a far less courteous driver than the human driver would have been without AP. If everyone on the road behaved like AP, traffic would be a mess.

Yes, agreed that Autopilot is a very rude driver. It has really bad "instincts" regarding when to initiate lane changes, often putting on the blinker when another car is in the blind spot for instance, probably freaking them out. And of course, It's very bad about recognizing when another driver is trying to cut in. This, combined with its generous following distance in slow traffic (even at the lowest setting) is literally an accident waiting to happen.

 

[focher]

I’ve observed that AP features (a term I think might start to be useful to be more “all encompassing”) utilize signals from other vehicles. No signal? Less “utilization”.

 

[afadeev]

I was driving yesterday on PCH in heavy beach traffic, southbound near Zuma Beach, in the left lane, with Autopilot engaged. A car (white Toyota) tried to abruptly merge in from the right, and I expected Autopilot to recognize the situation and brake or take evasive action, but it didn't. I had to manually slam on the brakes at the last second; if I hadn't, I'm certain there would have been a collision..

I had a similar experience on the NJTPK. Traffic was going about 10MPH. I was on NOA and in the far right lane. Cars were merging from the right hand side after stopping for a stop sign (there was construction around the particular highway entrance). There was about 2 car lengths in front of me when an suv tried to merge into my lane. Instead of stopping, NOA tried to close the distance to the car in front of me almost causing me to side swipe the merging suv. Of course I took over prior to that happening but was surprised my car didn’t slow down to let the merging car in.

There are a few cheeky disclaimers in Model 3 manual w.r.t. AP/TACC and AP/AS behavior:

• p.67: Warning: Do not use Traffic-Aware Cruise Control on city streets or on roads where traffic conditions are constantly changing.
• p.70: Warning: Never depend on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to adequately slow down Model 3 to avoid a collision.
• p.74: Warning: Autosteer is not designed to, and will not, steer Model 3 around objects partially or completely in the driving lane.

So yeah, sadly, this is par for the course.

It feels like that because AP often doesn't brake for cars that are partially in the lane. I bet you hit the brakes before the car was completely in the lane. The funny thing is I also see this behavior and can see on the screen that the vision system sees exactly where the car is. It's super annoying.

I've had to intervene in these types of situations, repeatedly, as well. AP is just slow to react to cars merging into your lane.

There was a video circulated a few months ago of someone failing to intervene, and rear ending a truck in that exact scenario. Some commiserated, others jumped on the poster and lambasted him/her for failing to "read the manual".

Ironic.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

A car (white Toyota) tried to abruptly merge in from the right, and I expected Autopilot to recognize the situation and brake or take evasive action, but it didn't. I had to manually slam on the brakes at the last second;

I was just surprised to see that I had to take over at all in this situation.

No surprises here. This is completely normal Autosteer + TACC behavior.

I would be moderately surprised to see AP brake in this sort of situation.

 

[Msjulie]

I'm not sure it would have. It feels like that because AP often doesn't brake for cars that are partially in the lane.

Interesting because my car often brakes for cars that are clearly well to the side of us but in the display sometimes are jigging back-and-forth across the lane line; those are the most annoying 'phantom' braking events because when they happen, the car clearly is acting like UH OH STOP NOW

 

[cucubits]

I still find all this very strange. My 5 year old Mazda with simple radar cruise control would always "see" and brake correctly for cars merging in my lane right in front of me. At first I used to be very ready to take over but it never ever failed with this, not a single time on daily highway driving.

This makes me think that Tesla isn't doing something right with AP development...

 

[brkaus]

It was broken. He used hand signals instead.

He even used the mid-merge hand signal and the more advanced post merge "thank you" hand signal.

I think AP has a hard time when things are very slow. I believe the system gains a lot of information from motion.

 

[C141medic]

I still find all this very strange. My 5 year old Mazda with simple radar cruise control would always "see" and brake correctly for cars merging in my lane right in front of me. At first I used to be very ready to take over but it never ever failed with this, not a single time on daily highway driving.

This makes me think that Tesla isn't doing something right with AP development...

What’s funny is that it’ll phantom brake like crazy when I have someone that’s parallel to me on a highway merge and nowhere near me but if that person starts to merge into my lane it won’t let that car in (and keep trying to close the distance to the vehicle directly in front of me) to the front of my lane.

 

[cucubits]

If there a difference in how it behaves if NoA is enabled vs just regular AP?

I'm wondering if this phantom braking is responsible for some of the rear-ended Teslas.
In Texas tailgating seems like a wide spread hobby on the highways...

 

[turnem]

What’s funny is that it’ll phantom brake like crazy when I have someone that’s parallel to me on a highway merge and nowhere near me but if that person starts to merge into my lane it won’t let that car in (and keep trying to close the distance to the vehicle directly in front of me) to the front of my lane.

I've noticed this as well. I sometimes feel like it's doing a better job with mid to far range scouting than the immediate range.

 

[anticowboyism]

I've send the dashcam video and info to Tesla so they can use it as a data point for testing.

What email did you send it to?

 

[dsvick]

If everyone on the road behaved like AP, traffic would be a mess.

On the other hand, if everyone behaved like autopilot and used turn signals, didn't weave in and out of traffic, and obeyed speed limits traffic would be a lot less of a mess.

 

[Ben W]

What email did you send it to?

[email protected]. (Just realized I sent to teslamotors.com instead of tesla.com, but I'm pretty sure it forwards to the right place; I've gotten responses from that address before.) If you want to send them something, you could also try [email protected], or [email protected].

 

[Ben W]

I think AP has a hard time when things are very slow. I believe the system gains a lot of information from motion.

I'm not sure that's the problem here. Lack of motion is more problematic at high speeds, when the radar has difficulty spotting immobile obstacles such as vehicles parked on the shoulder or stopped in the lane, when they're too far away for the cameras to clearly resolve. At very low speeds, such as in this incident, the ultrasonic sensors should provide plenty of information and warning. (And of course the cameras, which have a perfectly clear close-up view.)

I think it's much more likely that the software simply isn't structured to handle such cases, though I'm not sure if that was an intentional decision on Tesla's part. For basic lanekeeping and safety, I would think that standard Autopilot absolutely should be able to handle cases like this.