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Battery alone worth more than BMW on a 10 year old Tesla

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Chopr147, Apr 21, 2017.

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  1. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    This was posted 4/15 on Electrek and must be here somewhere on TMC but I didn't find it. It's an interesting read and another angle on used car values. Basically a 10 year old Tesla's battery pack will then be used for storage. Example is an 85kwh battery can be worth $15000 to be used for energy storage.



    Why Teslas may keep their resale value better than gas-burners
     
  2. ScaredByCars

    ScaredByCars Member

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    This is cool, but with battery production ramping up so quickly via gigafactories etc, can't we expect significant drops in price/value for batteries over the next 10 years?
     
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  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Yes of course. While I find the estimate of a $15K value on a 10 year old 85kWh battery very high, I do believe such a battery would have some value for energy storage since its usable capacity is likely to be at least 60kWh. I would love a battery like that for my house instead of the 6kWh Powerwall (V1) I currently have. However, there will be challenges repackaging an old 85kWh battery and changing the connections so it can serve a stationary storage unit. It may make more sense to recycle it after 10 years.
     
  4. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I think it's too early to estimate how much a 10 year old battery will be worth.
     
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  5. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

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    The estimated value of $15k for a used battery is ridiculous.
    Maybe $3000

    IIRC member wk posted his cost
     
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  6. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    Maybe not as early as you think. We're less than one year away from having some 10 year old Tesla batteries.
     
  7. zer0cool

    zer0cool Member

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    Huh, doubt 10 year-old battery will be worth 15k even if it's already removed from the car and put in a useable format. However you can't just USE the battery directly, you gota have labor/skill etc to remove the batteries from the car and put them in a useable state. Doubt that's cheap.
     
  8. John5396

    John5396 Member

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    I would expect that in 4-5 years, there would be a repurposing system for retired tesla batteries either from Tesla or some other startup. That solution which includes charging system, mounting, maintenance switching, control and monitoring, and a dozen other things will have significant value to the utilities. Assuming the article referenced is correct that the value is $15K for one car's battery, the price to the auto recycler (junk yard) would be more like $2-5K to allow for profit and the costs of the other components of a complete solution.

    compare that to the junk yard selling a used engine to an engine rebuilder where the rebuilt engine from retail parts outlet is $2K, so the junk yard must be getting $500.
     
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  9. MostlyStock

    MostlyStock Member

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    The Roadster isn't a good gauge for battery prices due to its very low production numbers (< 2500 cars). You can currently get the 5.3 kWh modules (1/16 of a 85 kWh battery) on eBay for $1300 each. The current demand is from hobbyist and maybe a few car repairs/upgrades. I would expect the demand for 5.3 kWh modules to fall once the 9.3 kWh modules from a Model 3 (1/8 of a 75 kWh battery) become available on the used market. A utility that wanted to make storage in-house would probably target Model 3 modules due to the greater availability and higher energy density. I also expect China to create an oversupply for automotive/storage lithium-ion batteries in the next year or two. The value of used batteries could as low as just over the cost of shipping.
     
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  10. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I know we're splitting hairs now, but the article never said that a 10-year old battery would be WORTH $15,000. It siad

    The net value of the battery based on how much capacity it can store over the next 15 years of service life. Which means that a utility would be willing to pay up to $15,000; beyond that it's not worth it for them. Below that and they make a profit.

    If those figures hold up. Not "a 10 year old battery worth $15,000". They never made that claim.
     
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  11. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    I think the article was a little careless with its assumptions.

    First, they postulate a 10 year old 85kWh battery providing 42.5 kW for two hours (= 85kWh), but that would be full rated capacity, not the 80% to 90% capacity of a 10 year old battery. Should be something like 70 to 75 kWh capacity.

    Second, they rate it at 42.5 kW for two hours, about 1.5 times the discharge rate of Tesla batteries. It should be maybe 72 kWh/3hr = 24kW to the Grid. That would reduce its operational value to something like $10k instead of $15k

    Third, they assume that the Tesla owner would receive the full calculated value. Cost of removing from the car, transporting, testing, and then installing that battery pack in a power storage facility would further reduce the salvage value; by at least $2500.

    Factor in discount for profit margin for the operating company, and the salvage value might be down to $5k.
     
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  12. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    I find Electrek has two really good skills,

    1) Fawning praises of Tesla, sometimes deserved, sometimes not.
    2) Expanding a 140 character tweet from Elon into a 3 page article.

    10 years from today, I would have spent more on door handles than the battery would be worth. You can't exactly just remove the car battery and stick it in an AC plug at home and pretend you have a massive power wall. Although it would be nice. Heck I'd love to see a software update allow my Tesla to act as a power wall ;-) ..
     
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  13. John5396

    John5396 Member

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    Now that would be really cool.... I could local charge at my nearby supercharger and take the electricity home to use to run my TV.....

    Wait, your saying that is not the proper way to use the SC network? ;^)
     
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  14. Sir Guacamolaf

    Sir Guacamolaf The good kind of fat

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    Yeah this would be a concern - but now that they charge to supercharge, hopefully not an issue anymore.
    Also, I don't see myself spending 45 mins at the supercharger, so I can steal 70kwh (after loss) of electricity, but I understand that some may.

    I think the REAL concern here would be too many charge/discharge cycles, and perhaps car batteries are different than what they put in power walls.
     
  15. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    Elektrek? This was an EVAnnex article quoting a source called ARK Investment Management, whoever that is.
     
  16. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    I think at some point a clever company will make a box that connects to the Tesla battery and has an inverter, cooling system and solar input. This way you can use any old Tesla batters as is and just hook it up to the system for home power storage. No need to take the battery apart and reconfigure it again.
     
  17. brucet999

    brucet999 Active Member

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    If so, Btr_ftw would make a fortune from all the battery packs he must have collected by now. ;)
     
  18. whitex

    whitex Active Member

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  19. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    So the future is: instead of old pick-up trucks in the yard it will now be Tesla's hooked up to the house for energy storage . :)
    I thought the $15k figure was too high but it is a reminder that a Tesla will have value even if wrecked
     
  20. Phillip L

    Phillip L Gas Passer

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    This is really cool. So in ten years take your now museum piece Model S, park it near your house, cover it up and use it as a big power wall. But I always wondered whether Tesla would have the ability to replace the battery pack with a new one, and keep running my now vintage 2015, if they do not change the basic architecture of the Model S?
     

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