Battery draining fast - new 2020 M3 SR+

[Csamika]

I have just graduated to this part of the forum topics with my day old M3 SR+.

Question:
I got the car with 13miles in it at 160 mi range charge. Took about an hour to inspect it with the car "running'. Went to a supercharger on my way home and charged it from 134 to 219 mile. Drove around a little bit.

Total miles now: 47mi. @ 185mi range

So total miles driven: 34miles
Battery loss: 60miles.

I'm in Cali, it's colder than usual but not under 45F.
is this normal?
Do batteries need to get used a few hundred miles before they become efficient?

 

[jjrandorin]

I have just graduated to this part of the forum topics with my day old M3 SR+.

Question:
I got the car with 13miles in it at 160 mi range charge. Took about an hour to inspect it with the car "running'. Went to a supercharger on my way home and charged it from 134 to 219 mile. Drove around a little bit.

Total miles now: 47mi. @ 185mi range

So total miles driven: 34miles
Battery loss: 60miles.

I'm in Cali, it's colder than usual but not under 45F.
is this normal?
Do batteries need to get used a few hundred miles before they become efficient?

yes, normal, no the battery does not need to get used to being driven around. The car stores energy, not "miles" and you will not see rated miles tick off at a 1:1.

There is a master thread on battery degradation, range loss, etc if you are interested:

MASTER THREAD: Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, How to Maintain Battery Health


The short answer as I said is, the rated range is based on the EPA test cycle for the car, not how you drive.. just like MPG is for a gas powered car. Winter range (even in california) is not nearly as efficient. Nothing at all wrong with your car.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I have just graduated to this part of the forum topics with my day old M3 SR+.

Question:
I got the car with 13miles in it at 160 mi range charge. Took about an hour to inspect it with the car "running'. Went to a supercharger on my way home and charged it from 134 to 219 mile. Drove around a little bit.

Total miles now: 47mi. @ 185mi range

So total miles driven: 34miles
Battery loss: 60miles.

I'm in Cali, it's colder than usual but not under 45F.
is this normal?
Do batteries need to get used a few hundred miles before they become efficient?

Normal. Also note that the trip meter only counts energy use when not in Park, and that features like Sentry, Summon Standby, and HVAC can have very high energy use.

Here is my current understanding of the math behind things:

Lines & Constants

 

[ewoodrick]

First, breath and welcome to the club. Life is not a disaster. You didn't do a bad thing.

In cooler weather, yes, 45 is cooler weather, the battery capacity can be degraded by 30%, just a fact of batteries, your phone does it as well.

As a new owner, I'm sure that you haven't hit the accelerator a little hard or haven't been driving a little aggressive, so that couldn't be part of the loss.
And in So Cal, I'm guessing that you've turned Sentry mode on. It's a battery hog. It uses a few miles per hour.

So, my recommendation, chill, keep filling the battery as needed and don't worry about the range for a month. After a month, you and the car will know each other a lot better and you will understand each other a lot better.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Bottom line, you want to make rated range, you need to average 240 (or a little less?) Wh/mile.

My advice? Put your battery meter readout on energy (percentage like your cell phone) rather than distance (range). Use the energy graph to see your remaining range based on the last 5, 15 or 30 miles of driving...only if you need to. Otherwise it'll just needlessly stress you out.

Welcome, and enjoy your Model 3! Soon this will all seem second nature.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Bottom line, you want to make rated range, you need to average 240 (or a little less?) Wh/mile.

~203Wh/mi for the 2020 SR+ (for mile for rated mile rolloff).

Use the energy graph

I’d recommend the Energy -> Trip screen.

The Energy Consumption graph can be misleading for a long trip especially when big hills are involved, though it can be useful sometimes.

 

[Evoforce]

How much have you been enjoying the cars quickness? Have you noticed more lead in your right foot?

 

[BBBC]

New owner here too, reading this stuff is at the same time comforting and maddening. In Chicago here, took a 94 mile round trip this morning to my wife’s office and back home. Used about 124 “miles” of range on the battery. Mix of local and highway driving, lots of 45mph and 75mph. Temperatures around 40F here today. Is this about what I should be expecting? In warmer weather will my efficiency improve? Anything else to do to get more range out of the battery? I keep seeing posts with people stating they are getting more range out of the battery than advertised, and then people saying losing 20+% is totally normal. Confused/frustrated!

Took delivery on Monday, after about a 10 day wait (which was great as my old car was totaled and I was in a rental), but I have to wait another 2 weeks for my Nema 14-50 charging outlet to get installed, and charging the LR AWD at 3-4 mph is giving me major anxiety right now with the battery running a lot less efficient than I realized it would!

I also have some anxiety now, with my longest work trip at about 250 miles round trip. Bought the LR AWD thinking that would give me all the range I need plus a little wiggle room. Now I’m thinking I won’t have enough range for that drive at all, let alone the wiggle room.

 

[BBBC]

New owner here too, reading this stuff is at the same time comforting and maddening. In Chicago here, took a 94 mile round trip this morning to my wife’s office and back home. Used about 124 “miles” of range on the battery. Mix of local and highway driving, lots of 45mph and 75mph. Temperatures around 40F here today. Is this about what I should be expecting? In warmer weather will my efficiency improve? Anything else to do to get more range out of the battery? I keep seeing posts with people stating they are getting more range out of the battery than advertised, and then people saying losing 20+% is totally normal. Confused/frustrated!

Took delivery on Monday, after about a 10 day wait (which was great as my old car was totaled and I was in a rental), but I have to wait another 2 weeks for my Nema 14-50 charging outlet to get installed, and charging the LR AWD at 3-4 mph is giving me major anxiety right now with the battery running a lot less efficient than I realized it would!

I also have some anxiety now, with my longest work trip at about 250 miles round trip. Bought the LR AWD thinking that would give me all the range I need plus a little wiggle room. Now I’m thinking I won’t have enough range for that drive at all, let alone the wiggle room.

 

[al503]

New owner here too, reading this stuff is at the same time comforting and maddening. In Chicago here, took a 94 mile round trip this morning to my wife’s office and back home. Used about 124 “miles” of range on the battery. Mix of local and highway driving, lots of 45mph and 75mph. Temperatures around 40F here today. Is this about what I should be expecting? In warmer weather will my efficiency improve? Anything else to do to get more range out of the battery? I keep seeing posts with people stating they are getting more range out of the battery than advertised, and then people saying losing 20+% is totally normal. Confused/frustrated!

Took delivery on Monday, after about a 10 day wait (which was great as my old car was totaled and I was in a rental), but I have to wait another 2 weeks for my Nema 14-50 charging outlet to get installed, and charging the LR AWD at 3-4 mph is giving me major anxiety right now with the battery running a lot less efficient than I realized it would!

I also have some anxiety now, with my longest work trip at about 250 miles round trip. Bought the LR AWD thinking that would give me all the range I need plus a little wiggle room. Now I’m thinking I won’t have enough range for that drive at all, let alone the wiggle room.

When the temps start to dip into the 30's for me, I get about 2/3 the stated range. I tend to run hot so while I do use the seat heater for about the first 5 minutes of my trip, I turn them off as they feel warm to me for the rest of the trip. I do leave the heat on 80 at the lowest speed.

If you run the seat heater constantly and use more heat, I could see dipping into the 50's. In the summer, I get over the stated range frequently but not by much.

 

[jjrandorin]

New owner here too, reading this stuff is at the same time comforting and maddening. In Chicago here, took a 94 mile round trip this morning to my wife’s office and back home. Used about 124 “miles” of range on the battery. Mix of local and highway driving, lots of 45mph and 75mph. Temperatures around 40F here today. Is this about what I should be expecting? In warmer weather will my efficiency improve? Anything else to do to get more range out of the battery? I keep seeing posts with people stating they are getting more range out of the battery than advertised, and then people saying losing 20+% is totally normal. Confused/frustrated!

Took delivery on Monday, after about a 10 day wait (which was great as my old car was totaled and I was in a rental), but I have to wait another 2 weeks for my Nema 14-50 charging outlet to get installed, and charging the LR AWD at 3-4 mph is giving me major anxiety right now with the battery running a lot less efficient than I realized it would!

I also have some anxiety now, with my longest work trip at about 250 miles round trip. Bought the LR AWD thinking that would give me all the range I need plus a little wiggle room. Now I’m thinking I won’t have enough range for that drive at all, let alone the wiggle room.

Your likely not going to have enough range for a 250 round trip drive, in the winter, when using heat, in illinois. You will need to plan for a supercharger stop.. probably around 15 minutes or so would be enough.

You can expect roughly 30% less range in winter with "real" winter weather, and you can also expect that (just like an ICE car), it depends on how you drive, weather, etc.

Tips to get further range:

1. Drive slower (no really... there is a HUGE difference between 70 MPH and 60 MPH.. just like in an ICE car but people are more sensitive to it in an EV.

2. Pre heat car before you leave when on "shore power" (plugged in), turn heat down to like 68, wear a jacket, and use seat heating (no waste heat from the engine in an EV.. running the heater is a HUGE drain on power)

3. Dont use sentry mode or anything that keeps the car awake when you park.


Or, just drive, turn your heat on, and understand that you are going to get around 30-35% less range, and plan for a 15-20 minute supercharger stop on that 250 mile trip (or if its 125 there and 125 back, plug in, even on a standard outlet, when you are at the location you are going).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

250 miles round trip. Bought the LR AWD thinking that would give me all the range I need plus a little wiggle room. Now I’m thinking I won’t have enough range for that drive at all, let alone the wiggle room.

Definitely very unlikely to get this in winter. Even in summer in ideal conditions at freeway speeds 200 miles is a good expectation. Use the link above to make sense of the rated miles use - that constant is key. But it's just for awareness of how it works - in the end, other than not using HVAC and slowing down, there's not going to be much you can do to budge your Wh/mi that you achieve (some other good suggestions in the post above).

That's before battery degradation - looks like you should expect 5-10% or so degradation short term, with 10-15% much longer term. (So in a couple years your max range will likely be below 290 rated miles).

So find that Supercharger (or destination charging if you're doing a 250-mile round trip)! It's really not a big deal as long as there is one convenient. If there isn't, then you have an issue. 250 miles at typical freeway speeds in cold weather is not reasonable to expect.

 

[BBBC]

Definitely very unlikely to get this in winter. Even in summer in ideal conditions at freeway speeds 200 miles is a good expectation. Use the link above to make sense of the rated miles use - that constant is key. But it's just for awareness of how it works - in the end, other than not using HVAC and slowing down, there's not going to be much you can do to budge your Wh/mi that you achieve (some other good suggestions in the post above).

That's before battery degradation - looks like you should expect 5-10% or so degradation short term, with 10-15% much longer term. (So in a couple years your max range will likely be below 290 rated miles).

So find that Supercharger (or destination charging if you're doing a 250-mile round trip)! It's really not a big deal as long as there is one convenient. If there isn't, then you have an issue. 250 miles at typical freeway speeds in cold weather is not reasonable to expect.

I should expect 5-10% degradation in the short term???!? I hope that is not true...

Most of what I’ve been seeing online and from a couple buddies that have older cars (5 year old S for instance) is less than 5% degradation after 100k miles.

 

[jonquiljo]

1. Drive slower (no really... there is a HUGE difference between 70 MPH and 60 MPH.. just like in an ICE car but people are more sensitive to it in an EV.

2. Pre heat car before you leave when on "shore power" (plugged in), turn heat down to like 68, wear a jacket, and use seat heating (no waste heat from the engine in an EV.. running the heater is a HUGE drain on power)

3. Dont use sentry mode or anything that keeps the car awake when you park.


Or, just drive, turn your heat on, and understand that you are going to get around 30-35% less range, and plan for a 15-20 minute supercharger stop on that 250 mile trip (or if its 125 there and 125 back, plug in, even on a standard outlet, when you are at the location you are going).

Does the heater really use that much energy? Do the seat heaters use less? Driving locally I'm getting around 65% of rated range.

Today, I took a ride to pick up a few things and the display said the "regenerative braking was limited." It was only 59 degrees? Will that much temperature decrease really affect the car?

 

[jjrandorin]

Does the heater really use that much energy? Do the seat heaters use less? Driving locally I'm getting around 65% of rated range.

Today, I took a ride to pick up a few things and the display said the "regenerative braking was limited." It was only 59 degrees? Will that much temperature decrease really affect the car?

The battery was cold, and takes quite some time to warm up. It effects the car in as far as you have limited regen, and use extra energy because it has to warm up the battery. I park in a garage at home, and in the morning right now I have limited regen. Short trips are going to use more power, just like an ICE car, it takes time to get the cabin to temp and the battery to temp.

And yes, the heater uses a lot. There is no waste heat from the engine to pump into the car. Think "hair dryer".

 

[jonquiljo]

The battery was cold, and takes quite some time to warm up. It effects the car in as far as you have limited regen, and use extra energy because it has to warm up the battery. I park in a garage at home, and in the morning right now I have limited regen. Short trips are going to use more power, just like an ICE car, it takes time to get the cabin to temp and the battery to temp.

And yes, the heater uses a lot. There is no waste heat from the engine to pump into the car. Think "hair dryer".

Thanks. I guess I should leave it plugged in and have the car pre-warm. I also just need to remember that it is a fact of life to stay warm in winter and cool in summer is to reduce my range.

Also gotta stop worrying about range in general. To me, a "road trip" is to go to the airport!

 

[BBBC]

I never noticed huge fluctuations in my old ICE cars like I’m seeing now with this. I’m coming to this from an Acura. If i drove like an a-hole, and had the AC blasting in the summer, I might get 320 miles instead of 340 out of the tank. In the winter with a different fuel blend suited to cold weather that’s supposed to be less efficient, running the heat hardcore, I would also still get 320 instead of 340. The vehicle never got down to 250 no matter how abusive i was to fuel efficiency. Is what it is i guess.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks. I guess I should leave it plugged in and have the car pre-warm. I also just need to remember that it is a fact of life to stay warm in winter and cool in summer is to reduce my range.

Also gotta stop worrying about range in general. To me, a "road trip" is to go to the airport!

The aircon is not bad at all, its just the heater.

 

[QS01]

I never noticed huge fluctuations in my old ICE cars like I’m seeing now with this. I’m coming to this from an Acura. If i drove like an a-hole, and had the AC blasting in the summer, I might get 320 miles instead of 340 out of the tank. In the winter with a different fuel blend suited to cold weather that’s supposed to be less efficient, running the heat hardcore, I would also still get 320 instead of 340. The vehicle never got down to 250 no matter how abusive i was to fuel efficiency. Is what it is i guess.

I think your stressing about this too much and there’s an overwhelming number of posts about battery degradation, cold, heaters, etc.. as a couple others have said — relax, control the driving when you need to maximize range and on longer trips route to a super charger

unless you completely ignore the car, it’s not going to let you run out of energy. It will start routing you to a super charger if it’s needed. It should give you plenty of warning.

to help combat the colder days — set the car with an expected departure time so it can pre-warm the cabin and the batteries before you leave. This will help cut into the cold weather hit the batteries take.

I’m fairly new as well (about 3 weeks) and have gone through what you are going through now. After daily driving and a couple of trips - none of this is a big deal.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I should expect 5-10% degradation in the short term???!? I hope that is not true...

Most of what I’ve been seeing online and from a couple buddies that have older cars (5 year old S for instance) is less than 5% degradation after 100k miles.

There are many people with year-old cars with less than 290 rated miles remaining, even in warm weather. You can look in the master thread here for the distributions. Whether it is “real” is a separate question - though I can assure you it is real in the sense that these people most certainly can travel a shorter distance - they have less energy available.

The batteries in Model 3 are new and different, as compared to Model S. This does not necessarily mean they are better, and it certainly means their aging characteristics may be different.

Time will tell - but for now we just have the data we have, from Stats app and similar data compilation services.