Bought a 40.5k miles 2020 Model 3 with significant Battery degradation. What can I do?

[augustov58]

Hello all!,

I am a first-time Tesla owner. I would like to know your opinion on my findings.

As I mentioned, I just purchased a certified preowned Model 3 with 40.500 miles through the tesla.com website. I did a good research about Teslas and, among other EVs I considered it the best option.

My experience is mixed. The car looks really good and is in very good shape, also thought I found a very good deal with tesla warranty and the car specs being a Standard Range plus, with 19" wheels and enhanced AP.

My first problem came when we started driving the car. My wife started hearing a weird noise when moving slowly or starting to move. I found out that the lug nuts in the 4 wheels were loose, especially the rear passenger-side one where the noise was coming from. I tightened the lug nuts myself and called Tesla service immediately to check the car in case anything had suffered.

My second problem is that I noticed a really low range in my car after a week of driving and wanted to obtain some guidance. I have downloaded the Tessie app to check and also performed a battery health test in service mode to test against the Tessie app. Here are my findings and some other stats:

-Battery degradation according to Tessie: 15.9%
-Battery health according to health Test on the car: 85% (or 15% degradation)
-Car calculated Range 217mi. (217/250*100 = 86.8% so math kinda checks out)
-Average efficiency according to Tessie app: 75% or 287Wh/mi. This is counting other factors based on my real world use. Which means I get around 162.75mi of real range(0.75*217mi). To my surprise, less range can be driven
-Battery total full load when charged 45.4Kwh. Rated is 54Kwh ( 45.4/54*100 = ~84% Again math maths)

I live in Florida and the weather is really hot during the summer I understand have a big impact in efficiency

I understand I have battery coverage under 100.000 miles if my battery range drops under 70%. But in any case, this seems out of the normal of what I have seen around and by the app and other stats. What can I do to improve my situation based on the information provided? See attached pictures of my health test and Tessie app stats

 

[ucmndd]

That’s definitely some high degradation. Wonder what the first owner did to that poor car.

Unfortunately there is not much for you to do. There isn’t really any particularly effective magic to get it back and as you pointed out Tesla isn’t gonna talk to you until you hit 30% loss (which you won’t, at least not in the warranty period).

You can start doing some reading here - long thread and there’s some good info sprinkled about.

How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

Like many others, I have been concerned with loss of 100% indicated battery range on one of my Model 3s. My P3D (build date 9/13/2018, delivery date 10/8/2018) had gotten down to 270.3 miles at 100% charge on January 20, 2020, at about 30,700 miles, which is a loss of 40.8 miles since the car...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[augustov58]

Thanks for the reply. Really interesting post the one you linked.

I wonder however if my case will improve with some calibration given that I know the current capacity in Kwh of the car and that checks out with the degradation percentage.

It really sucks the fact battery is under warranty but due to the asymptotic nature of the degradation I won't likely get to the 70% degradation before the 100k miles unless i treat it worse than the previous owner going forward(ironic). Definitely an oversight on my research.

I will have to live with it. Oh well

 

[PassingLane]

Good thing you don’t live in Canada where it drops to -30 or you’d barely be able to get to the corner store.

 

[derotam]

Quick and dirty to attempt to help your BMS re-calibrate... Charge to I'll just say 90% then do your normal driving until you get down to lets just throw 20% out there before you charge the car again. Do this for again lets just say 2 weeks. Leave sentry mode off at night, and for good measure after your done charging the car UNPLUG it.

This should hit all the check boxes to give your car the best chance to re-calibrate. The car needs to see voltages on the high end and the low end because the middle %SOC is pretty flat voltage wise. It need to sit, not charging and not draining so that the battery voltage can stabilize before it takes it's measurement. Sentry mode doesn't allow the car to sleep which can possibly affect when/if the BMS can take its measurements and re-calibrate.

If you don't see any improvement in those 2 week, I would probably say that that degradation amount is real.

You didn't say what year the car is but it looks like a 2018-2019? I base that off the PTC heater reference in the service screen?

Don't think you will see a change, but it's worth a shot!

 

[Unclepaul]

Not unusual to see the highest battery degration duing the first couple years of use. Then it tends to slow down to just a trickle of degradation in the following years.

Sometimes running your batter down low, then charging it up to full a couple times will balance the cells and provide some improvement. Do not top off your battery to full, then let it sit for much time. This can speed up degradation.

 

[augustov58]

Quick and dirty to attempt to help your BMS re-calibrate... Charge to I'll just say 90% then do your normal driving until you get down to lets just throw 20% out there before you charge the car again. Do this for again lets just say 2 weeks. Leave sentry mode off at night, and for good measure after your done charging the car UNPLUG it.

This should hit all the check boxes to give your car the best chance to re-calibrate. The car needs to see voltages on the high end and the low end because the middle %SOC is pretty flat voltage wise. It need to sit, not charging and not draining so that the battery voltage can stabilize before it takes it's measurement. Sentry mode doesn't allow the car to sleep which can possibly affect when/if the BMS can take its measurements and re-calibrate.

If you don't see any improvement in those 2 week, I would probably say that that degradation amount is real.

You didn't say what year the car is but it looks like a 2018-2019? I base that off the PTC heater reference in the service screen?

Don't think you will see a change, but it's worth a shot!

It is a 2020. The car is in a really good shape. Problem is with Tesla you can't know what the degradation is before purchasing.

Appears that i need to do this based on your comments and other people comments and see if I can gain some miles back.
Appreaciate the help

 

[BitJam]

It really sucks the fact battery is under warranty but due to the asymptotic nature of the degradation I won't likely get to the 70% degradation before the 100k miles unless i treat it worse than the previous owner going forward(ironic). Definitely an oversight on my research.

Welcome!

This may be difficult but my suggestion is to not worry about it and enjoy the car!

There is always some degradation. There is calendar day degradation that has nothing to do with how the car was treated. You may have more than normal but, as you note, you're only halfway to warranty limit. Many people opt for and road trip with a Model Y which starts out with 8% range loss compared to the 3.

I know someone whose battery died after 140K miles and had to pay to get the it replaced. They are still very pro-Tesla. It's not unusual for new owners to be concerned about range loss and degradation. The 44 page thread linked to above is a testament to this.

You seem to be very well informed on the range and degradation details that many new owners miss. Your degradation is still well away from the warranty limit so there is not a lot more you can do. Your car still has great range and more than enough to provide you with great road trips. Around town the range loss won't matter one bit.

One thing you can do to get some of the range back is to switch to smaller wheels. Jason from Engineering Explained recommends switching to smaller wheels (larger tires) to help prevent expensive wheel damage:

Kyle Conner from Out of Spec nerded out on the range loss (12%) of his M3P after 100K miles and after beating the crap out of it:

Yours is more than normal but not ridiculously so. It may be due to luck of the draw rather than abuse by the previous owners. But either way, you only get one first Tesla. Please don't let this issue ruin your enjoyment of car!

 

[gt2690b]

287wh/mi is not really great especially with warm florida weather... i get 270 lifetime in a model y lifetime in cold colorado

 

[gaswalla]

There is an opportunity for Tesla to provide transparency, and a feeling of trust in the used car process by informing buyers about the current state of battery health. It’s so easy to query the car by going into service mode, they might as well reveal it to potential buyers early in the process.

 

[AAKEE]

Hello all!,

I am a first-time Tesla owner. I would like to know your opinion on my findings.

As I mentioned, I just purchased a certified preowned Model 3 with 40.500 miles through the tesla.com website. I did a good research about Teslas and, among other EVs I considered it the best option.

My experience is mixed. The car looks really good and is in very good shape, also thought I found a very good deal with tesla warranty and the car specs being a Standard Range plus, with 19" wheels and enhanced AP.

My first problem came when we started driving the car. My wife started hearing a weird noise when moving slowly or starting to move. I found out that the lug nuts in the 4 wheels were loose, especially the rear passenger-side one where the noise was coming from. I tightened the lug nuts myself and called Tesla service immediately to check the car in case anything had suffered.

My second problem is that I noticed a really low range in my car after a week of driving and wanted to obtain some guidance. I have downloaded the Tessie app to check and also performed a battery health test in service mode to test against the Tessie app. Here are my findings and some other stats:

-Battery degradation according to Tessie: 15.9%
-Battery health according to health Test on the car: 85% (or 15% degradation)
-Car calculated Range 217mi. (217/250*100 = 86.8% so math kinda checks out)
-Average efficiency according to Tessie app: 75% or 287Wh/mi. This is counting other factors based on my real world use. Which means I get around 162.75mi of real range(0.75*217mi). To my surprise, less range can be driven
-Battery total full load when charged 45.4Kwh. Rated is 54Kwh ( 45.4/54*100 = ~84% Again math maths)

I live in Florida and the weather is really hot during the summer I understand have a big impact in efficiency

I understand I have battery coverage under 100.000 miles if my battery range drops under 70%. But in any case, this seems out of the normal of what I have seen around and by the app and other stats. What can I do to improve my situation based on the information provided? See attached pictures of my health test and Tessie app stats

Tessie seem to read high on the initial value. From my memory the older SR+ battery is about 52.4kWh new capacity. The 2020 model did not have the bigger battery (2170L cells).

The other thing, SR cars with larger cycles will degrade faster. The warm climate will add quite much on the degradation.

This is Teslaloggers data for SR+, not year specific, but pre ’21.

Original range was 250miles, 402km On your car but 240mi/386km on the older.

The average range drop is 344/386 = 11%. Your car lives in a warmer climate so it is expected to loose more.
You can see that the loss levels off quite much after a couple of years so you probably will not loose much more.

 

[augustov58]

Welcome!

This may be difficult but my suggestion is to not worry about it and enjoy the car!

There is always some degradation. There is calendar day degradation that has nothing to do with how the car was treated. You may have more than normal but, as you note, you're only halfway to warranty limit. Many people opt for and road trip with a Model Y which starts out with 8% range loss compared to the 3.

I know someone whose battery died after 140K miles and had to pay to get the it replaced. They are still very pro-Tesla. It's not unusual for new owners to be concerned about range loss and degradation. The 44 page thread linked to above is a testament to this.

You seem to be very well informed on the range and degradation details that many new owners miss. Your degradation is still well away from the warranty limit so there is not a lot more you can do. Your car still has great range and more than enough to provide you with great road trips. Around town the range loss won't matter one bit.

One thing you can do to get some of the range back is to switch to smaller wheels. Jason from Engineering Explained recommends switching to smaller wheels (larger tires) to help prevent expensive wheel damage:

Kyle Conner from Out of Spec nerded out on the range loss (12%) of his M3P after 100K miles and after beating the crap out of it:

Yours is more than normal but not ridiculously so. It may be due to luck of the draw rather than abuse by the previous owners. But either way, you only get one first Tesla. Please don't let this issue ruin your enjoyment of car!

Much appreciated! Will look into your suggestions.

 

[augustov58]

287wh/mi is not really great especially with warm florida weather... i get 270 lifetime in a model y lifetime in cold colorado

Ok I have an update. This is improving now. My previous stats are from the first 5 days when I was supercharging. But for some reason after installed the home charger, and starting charging home at the recommended levels and I am back to my regular routine I am getting much better efficiency now. I don't know if it is my idea or not but I am pretty sure I am getting better efficiency now.

Tessie seem to read high on the initial value. From my memory the older SR+ battery is about 52.4kWh new capacity. The 2020 model did not have the bigger battery (2170L cells).

The other thing, SR cars with larger cycles will degrade faster. The warm climate will add quite much on the degradation.

This is Teslaloggers data for SR+, not year specific, but pre ’21.

Original range was 250miles, 402km On your car but 240mi/386km on the older.

The average range drop is 344/386 = 11%. Your car lives in a warmer climate so it is expected to loose more.
You can see that the loss levels off quite much after a couple of years so you probably will not loose much more.

View attachment 946241

Interesting! I think you are right my friend. I was looking into getting the Original rated total capacity of the battery in KWh but I didn't know how to obtain it from software nor I have seen in it anywhere on the specs I got.

This clarifies a bit more and paints a slightly better picture. Based on what the car shows on the actual range (217mi). Then, 217/250mi * 100 = 86.8%.

If I change the rated capacity on the Tessie app to 52.4 KWh (because yes, that is an editable parameter and came originally at 51.4KWh which I adjusted to 54.5Kwh based on the info I had) I get 86.6% battery health instead of the 84.1% of the OP. and this gets much closer to the 86.8% above from the car itself.

I know I am being a bit much nitpicky but just wanted to understand the correlation and real stats. Again thank you, will enjoy my car from now on.

 

[johnny_cakes]

Ok I have an update. This is improving now. My previous stats are from the first 5 days when I was supercharging. But for some reason after installed the home charger, and starting charging home at the recommended levels and I am back to my regular routine I am getting much better efficiency now. I don't know if it is my idea or not but I am pretty sure I am getting better efficiency now.

Interesting! I think you are right my friend. I was looking into getting the Original rated total capacity of the battery in KWh but I didn't know how to obtain it from software nor I have seen in it anywhere on the specs I got.

This clarifies a bit more and paints a slightly better picture. Based on what the car shows on the actual range (217mi). Then, 217/250mi * 100 = 86.8%.

If I change the rated capacity on the Tessie app to 52.4 KWh (because yes, that is an editable parameter and came originally at 51.4KWh which I adjusted to 54.5Kwh based on the info I had) I get 86.6% battery health instead of the 84.1% of the OP. and this gets much closer to the 86.8% above from the car itself.

I know I am being a bit much nitpicky but just wanted to understand the correlation and real stats. Again thank you, will enjoy my car from now on.

If it makes you feel any better, here's mine for comparison. It's a 2019 Model 3. I bought it used 5 months ago. I believe we have that same battery.

 

[HMHM]

It really sucks the fact battery is under warranty but due to the asymptotic nature of the degradation I won't likely get to the 70% degradation before the 100k miles unless i treat it worse than the previous owner going forward(ironic). Definitely an oversight on my research.

Barring any cell shorting, water intrusion, etc., you are probably right about not reaching a degradation above 30% before 100,000 mi. Based on the conversation on this thread and other resources, the odds are in favor of Tesla, Inc. Therefore, you can do better by following some best practices from now on.

My Charging Best Practices:

Maintaining Li-ion (NCM & NCA) Batteries - Real-world Recommendations for BEVs. The illustrated partial recharge cycle recommendations were revised recently in light of my extensive conversations with experts and long-time Tesla owners. LFP batteries should be charged to 100% at least once every week.

 

[DuncanM]

Hello all!,

I am a first-time Tesla owner. I would like to know your opinion on my findings.

As I mentioned, I just purchased a certified preowned Model 3 with 40.500 miles through the tesla.com website. I did a good research about Teslas and, among other EVs I considered it the best option.

My experience is mixed. The car looks really good and is in very good shape, also thought I found a very good deal with tesla warranty and the car specs being a Standard Range plus, with 19" wheels and enhanced AP.

My first problem came when we started driving the car. My wife started hearing a weird noise when moving slowly or starting to move. I found out that the lug nuts in the 4 wheels were loose, especially the rear passenger-side one where the noise was coming from. I tightened the lug nuts myself and called Tesla service immediately to check the car in case anything had suffered.

My second problem is that I noticed a really low range in my car after a week of driving and wanted to obtain some guidance. I have downloaded the Tessie app to check and also performed a battery health test in service mode to test against the Tessie app. Here are my findings and some other stats:

-Battery degradation according to Tessie: 15.9%
-Battery health according to health Test on the car: 85% (or 15% degradation)
-Car calculated Range 217mi. (217/250*100 = 86.8% so math kinda checks out)
-Average efficiency according to Tessie app: 75% or 287Wh/mi. This is counting other factors based on my real world use. Which means I get around 162.75mi of real range(0.75*217mi). To my surprise, less range can be driven
-Battery total full load when charged 45.4Kwh. Rated is 54Kwh ( 45.4/54*100 = ~84% Again math maths)

I live in Florida and the weather is really hot during the summer I understand have a big impact in efficiency

I understand I have battery coverage under 100.000 miles if my battery range drops under 70%. But in any case, this seems out of the normal of what I have seen around and by the app and other stats. What can I do to improve my situation based on the information provided? See attached pictures of my health test and Tessie app stats

You can increase the range a bit by switching to 18in wheels and the aerocovers. You can gain a bit more with slightly higher tire pressures.

None of the above will change the battery degradation but will increase real world range.

 

[augustov58]

Barring any cell shorting, water intrusion, etc., you are probably right about not reaching a degradation above 30% before 100,000 mi. Based on the conversation on this thread and other resources, the odds are in favor of Tesla, Inc. Therefore, you can do better by following some best practices from now on.

My Charging Best Practices:
View attachment 950461
Maintaining Li-ion (NCM & NCA) Batteries - Real-world Recommendations for BEVs. The illustrated partial recharge cycle recommendations were revised recently in light of my extensive conversations with experts and long-time Tesla owners. LFP batteries should be charged to 100% at least once every week.

Based on my daily driving I fit under 75mi/day. And I will consider dropping the charge top to 70% (I was doing it to 85%). For what I see in the 3rd column I should not charge the battery every day if I have enough for the next day? I was charging it everyday based on the recommendations seen by tesla itself regardless of the miles driven that day. Thanks for the chart!

 

[AAKEE]

Based on my daily driving I fit under 75mi/day. And I will consider dropping the charge top to 70% (I was doing it to 85%).

As you have NCA cells, 55% or less is the best if the car is not to be driven directly, as 55% and below cut the calendar aging in half.
I use the principle to stay at 55% as long as it is enough for the next days drive with a personal margin.

55% should be enligh for 75 miles, right?

For what I see in the 3rd column I should not charge the battery every day if I have enough for the next day?

If you have SOC enough to not charge every day, you did charge to much.

(the exception is charging to 50%, as that is the lowest possible setting)

-Charge often (basically every day)
-Do not charge more then needed
-Charge late, to keep the time at higher SOC low.

 

[PianoAl]

This may be difficult but my suggestion is to not worry about it and enjoy the car!

I'll second that. Remember not to compare your 217 mile range with 250. You bought a used car and saved money by doing that. Instead, compare it with, say, 225 miles, which would be 10% degradation. That is, don't be bummed by a difference of only 8 miles.

Depending on your daily driving, the range decrease might make zero difference. You'll be fine on trips, too.

Also, wait before worrying about efficiency. Mine is often around 300 wh per mile, but on a recent trip was 240.

 

[HMHM]

Charge often (basically every day)
-Do not charge more then needed
-Charge late, to keep the time at higher SOC low.

Agreed in general, if there was a need to charge every single day. However, every other day or every third day can be a lot better. Every time we have a partial charging session (even a shallow one), we're stressing the battery, thus encouraging further degradation.