Funny how some people let third party crap communicate with their car and then complain when the car doesn’t work the way it should.Just tried turning off TeslaFi logging a couple of hours ago, left the charge limit set to 100% and left it plugged in and charging... it just finished charging and it now shows 99% charge! Highest I could get it before was about 85% (it was getting worse). Problem solved! Looks like it was the fact that TeslaFi was keeping it awake... guess we all need rest at some point lol. I didn't have TeslaFi setup to let it sleep, I'm now playing around with the sleep settings in TeslaFi so it can sleep but still have it connected to TeslaFi for logging when awake. Thanks for the great info!
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Battery no longer charging to 100%
- Thread starter Relentless
- Start date
We wouldn't need 3rd party crap software is Tesla actually did app development and allowed for all this information out of their own app. It's crazy that we have to use a 3rd party...
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Coming late to this party. Not related to TeslaFi since I don't use it. Last month I was plugged into a 10-30 dryer and it would never charge more than 97%. Note I never have my display on distance, always %.
This week I wanted to range charge the night before from my HPWC at home and the next morning it was at 99%. It probably went to 100% but got colder for the few hours before the trip.
Not sure what caused the car not to charge all the way up to 100% on the 10-30. I could have used the extra 3%.
This week I wanted to range charge the night before from my HPWC at home and the next morning it was at 99%. It probably went to 100% but got colder for the few hours before the trip.
Not sure what caused the car not to charge all the way up to 100% on the 10-30. I could have used the extra 3%.
I know, right? Good thing no one uses 3rd party apps with anything else... like their computers, phones, etc... No one was complaining, just asking if others have seen the same and sharing information learned... that thing you do on forums.
Not the same. They were designed to run third party apps. Your car wasn’t. You normally don’t care about battery use in a computer or phone as you do in a EV and whether it prevents the device from sleeping as the manufacturer intended.
You're right, it is very different actually. It's actually much worse on your phone or computer. On your phone or computer you install apps directly on the device - this puts the device at risk. The 3rd party apps accessing a Tesla are not installed or running on the car's computers. They run externally in the cloud and access only points allowed to be accessed by Tesla. The control and data points accessed by 3rd party apps are actually accessed thru Tesla's servers which in turn access the points in the car, the apps do not have direct access to the car. So access is completely controlled by Tesla. Tesla created the API so that 3rd parties can interface with the vehicle in a safe manner and not affect critical systems. So actually Tesla did design and intend 3rd party access. Yes, in this case it affected a system in a very minor and non-permanent way - it didn't damage the battery, it simply threw off the battery level indicator slightly - easily corrected and no harm was done which is what you would expect when using a manufacturer created API - safe access with no harm done. Phones or PC's which are designed to run 3rd party apps directly on them are far more vulnerable and can be severely damaged by a rouge 3rd party app.
HeloCaptain
Member
Clearly Tesla intended that third parties would develop apps or they wouldn't have published an API. Apple was smart enough to know that third party apps would enhance sales of their phones and I'm sure Tesla is aware that third party apps might enhance sales of the cars.
But on to a more fundamental question: what does 100% charge mean and how does the car determine when it has been reached? The obvious answer is that it has 100 kWh in it. But how do you know it has 100kWh it it? The only way to find out is to discharge it fully and I guess that's what this "battery calibration" that I see talked about here (but not in anything I've seen from Tesla) is about.
But on to a more fundamental question: what does 100% charge mean and how does the car determine when it has been reached? The obvious answer is that it has 100 kWh in it. But how do you know it has 100kWh it it? The only way to find out is to discharge it fully and I guess that's what this "battery calibration" that I see talked about here (but not in anything I've seen from Tesla) is about.
Badly coded apps can quickly kill the batteries in a phone or computer also. Any computer or phone forum is full of horror stories of battery life going bad. People then blaming the device's manufactures, and after much "manufacturer sucks" comments finding out the person was running some sort of app, or when to a dodgy website with loads of ads and viruses, or ... And magically when they remove the application or quit going to a certain sites, the problem disappears.
I believe this is what the op is talking about I'm seeing the same thing just finished charging from approximately 7%. Set the car to charge to 100% this is what I got at charge completion. My car = 2012 (S85) this behavior seemed to begin at around the time I installed version 9 the charge indicators will no longer reach 100% And the 100% charge indicated range is down about 15 miles.
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Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Wonder how Tesla feels when customers bring their cars into very crowded and a bit overwhelmed services centers and it takes their most senior technicians to diagnose a problem that is caused by a 3rd party aftermarket item.
Perhaps the 3rd party suppliers need to be more proactive warning their customers what issues may befall them when installing wheels, brakes, suspension, computer controllers...things like that.
In the case of Teslafi, perhaps they cause Tesla to consume much more data to provide that access.
Perhaps the 3rd party suppliers need to be more proactive warning their customers what issues may befall them when installing wheels, brakes, suspension, computer controllers...things like that.
In the case of Teslafi, perhaps they cause Tesla to consume much more data to provide that access.
All good questions. A few points*:
First, generally, 100% is when the first call group reaches the pre-determined maximum cell-group voltage. Anything more is overcharging that cell group. Zero percent is the pre-determined safe minimum voltage.
Balancing is bringing all cell-groups to the exact same voltage level. It can happen anywhere, but TOC is the easiest because the top is the top and that is the maximum capacity of the pack. Just FYI.
Battery capacity in kWHrs is “best” determined by fully discharging the pack (to the lowest cell-group voltage) and then fully charging to 100% (as determined by above) while measuring current and voltage going in over time (voltage x current x time = killowatt-hours). Mostly, it’s tracked by starting somewhere and measuring the energy in and out and keeping track. This is why periodic charging to 100% is not a bad idea.
Final note: it’s is very difficult to know the “true” capacity of a pack (no matter which definition you are using). The usable energy out of a pack varies by discharge rate, temperature, where it is measured (because of losses along the way), etc.
VOLTAGE levels are the unchanging parameters used to determine safe charge and discharge levels, with no guard-banded buffer zone. In general, capacity is the energy obtained from a pack from Top Of Charge (TOC) to Bottom Of Charge (BOC) at the C-rate of the cell-group design for a given pack. If a cell group is designed to be discharged from full to empty at 10 amps (example) in one hour, the C-rate at 1C is 10 amps. 2C is 20 amps, etc.
Remember that all cell-groups inherently have slightly different capacities from each other to a tolerance know only to the manufacturer. A pack is only as good as its lowest capacity cell-group.
Voltage changes with pack charge level and a pre-determined plot of that vs. capacity from testing is used to determine remaining pack capacity.
*Blah blah blah temperature changes, algorithms, overhead, safety capacity, buffer zones, degradation, tolerances, internal resistance, consumer and designations, rated vs. actual, blah blah disclaimers on everything.
Whew!
But is it at something approaching the original 99%, or is it calling 82% the new 99%? In other words, have you lost 20% of your battery capacity, or did the available mileage also jump up as a result of not having "missing" miles down below 0%?
Tesla should improve their API. While you can check if the car is awake before asking for data, you cannot ask for data without resetting the timer that puts the car to sleep. And the first-party Tesla app does exactly the same thing (from the API perspective), and it doesn't come with any warnings.
Same problem as the thread starter ...100D with 27K on it ...I have been trying various answers here with no results . Still waiting for the service tech to help ...I'm down to 247miles at a setting of 100%... It seems to be progressing downward ...My green indicator is at about 83% which does kinda correspond to that charge level .I was good at 286 miles 3 months ago when I noticed it ..If you never set it to 100% it sorta sneaked up on me ..I was always 20-80 charge level ..Then I took a trip and needed the extra miles ..
Update:::
After reading much info on the forums (Thanks Guys ) I ran the car down to 20miles (scary) and charged on my home charger to 100% ..Took 12 hours but the first effort returned 282 miles at 100% and the second time it charged to 292 ,nearly the new battery amount .
I am relieved and impressed that after 27K miles and 19 months the car still retains 98% of charge .
After reading much info on the forums (Thanks Guys ) I ran the car down to 20miles (scary) and charged on my home charger to 100% ..Took 12 hours but the first effort returned 282 miles at 100% and the second time it charged to 292 ,nearly the new battery amount .
I am relieved and impressed that after 27K miles and 19 months the car still retains 98% of charge .
gnuarm
Model X 100 with 72 amp chargers
It has been a couple of months since the car was charged to 100% so I sat at a supercharger to let it get all the charge it could hold. Unfortunately that takes a very long time and the car doesn't even know how long. I reached the point where the estimated time ran down and it reported "calculating". Eventually it reached 100% while charging a bit more than 8 kW (I forget the exact number). I changed the display to miles and it said 276. Eventually it ticked over to 277 miles with the rate at 8 kW and decreasing. The rate continued to drop slowly and after another half hour it was down to 2 kW. At that point I left the car. While walking to the store it reported that charging had finished with 277 miles of range.
The first concern is that it took so long to charge. The second issue is that it reported it was charging and should have added some 3 or 4 kWh to the battery without increasing the range even 1 mile.
Then when I drove the car it showed that regen was restricted of course. But it wasn't totally restricted. As I drove the car and just 1% came off to 99%, it no longer indicated regen was restricted. Even then it wouldn't use regen other than a minimal amount. Seems something was amiss in the reporting of the charging, the charge state and the regen operation. I tried rebooting, even a total reboot while holding the brake pedal down. Very strange. I don't know if I got 100% charge or if the mileage reported is indicative of the current battery health.
Discharging to near zero is a lot harder since I have to make sure I end the run down at a charger. I'll see if I can do that.
The first concern is that it took so long to charge. The second issue is that it reported it was charging and should have added some 3 or 4 kWh to the battery without increasing the range even 1 mile.
Then when I drove the car it showed that regen was restricted of course. But it wasn't totally restricted. As I drove the car and just 1% came off to 99%, it no longer indicated regen was restricted. Even then it wouldn't use regen other than a minimal amount. Seems something was amiss in the reporting of the charging, the charge state and the regen operation. I tried rebooting, even a total reboot while holding the brake pedal down. Very strange. I don't know if I got 100% charge or if the mileage reported is indicative of the current battery health.
Discharging to near zero is a lot harder since I have to make sure I end the run down at a charger. I'll see if I can do that.
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